Lemmings World Tour Remastered [New-Formats Version] [Difficulty: Medium]

[IchoTolot]

Icho and Strato, you two are welcome Oh, and this is definitely very gold talisman worthy. I say add it in! Very fitting difficult challenge for the epic final level of LWT! I should be awarded for my efforts in some way, too

Personally, I don't really care for talismans I must say. I rather don't bother with all the excessive scrolling (as that really annoyed me as well in that level) and save myself a few hours I can spend on other stuff if it's not needed to solve the level.

[kaywhyn]

I don't care for talismans either. It's just that Strato speculated that a 100% solution to Groupie 40 might be possible, which was why the level doesn't have one, and I wanted to lay to rest that speculation I decided to go back and try and find such a solution, since it was one that I thought should be doable for one such as myself, even though I was very reluctant to replay the level, since I was very annoyed with the excessive scrolling one has to do in the level. Otherwise, if it's one which I think is beyond my ability to get, I simply don't bother and won't even attempt getting the talisman. The only way I will get them is if I "accidentally" get one while solving where I didn't even know there was one for the level, as once I complete a level and didn't unlock one, I generally will not go back to get them. Of course, this isn't really a problem in New Formats, since it's already displayed on the preview screen, but even then I generally don't bother with them.

[Strato Incendus]

I already congratulated you in the Old-Formats thread , so I'm just posting here to say that of course, the talisman has also been added to the New-Formats version. And to list the other changes that came with this small next update (these are the same changes as in the Old-Formats version).

Changelog

Groupie 05: added steel
Groupie 13: added steel and one-way arrows
Groupie 19: added steel
Groupie 40: added gold talisman for saving everyone

Adding this talisman particularly in New Formats was a little bit difficult, because as I mentioned again recently, the New-Formats editor can't actually display the entirety of "The Grand Puzzle", which is why I didn't risk opening it in the new editor (at least not to make any changes to it that I actually intended to save, like adding this talisman).

In Old-Formats, talismans were added in the Flexi Toolkit that compiled the levels to a pack; in New-Formats, talismans can be added to each individual level file, but that meant for "The Grand Puzzle" specifically, I had to do it by manually editing the talisman into the text file.

This was generally easy enough - I just took another New-Formats level text file from LWT containing a talisman as an example.

The only thing that was slightly confusing to me was the talisman ID. The example level I picked, "The Great Level of Indifference" from the Amateur rank, had ID 7 for its talisman.
In contrast, in the Old-Formats Flexi Toolkit, every talisman had a hexadecimal code, as far as I could see.

So I assume talisman IDs are just counted chronologically in New Formats?

I arbitrarily set the talisman ID for "The Grand Puzzle" to 20, even though there are only 11 talismans in total now. If the talismans need to be counted chronologically, this gives me a little bit of headroom in case I want to add further ones later on.

As far as I can tell, it seems to work, but of course, the New Formats player won't respond with "You unlocked a talisman!" if I just run kaywhyn's 100% solution over the level , as the Old-Formats player does (since it wasn't able to distinguish between different players' solutions yet).



There is one downside to this talisman having been added now, of course: Anyone who managed to get all LWT talismans before will now suddenly be faced with the what I considered to be impossible task of saving everyone on the final level.

But at least when comparing it directly to my solution, surprisingly it wasn't actually too far off from what I did. It would probably be comparatively easy to adapt my solution to make it a 100%er, too, now that I know the crucial difference.

And as I said in the Old-Formats thread, it's not what kaywhyn thought it is (I'm just cross-posting in the following what I said in the Old-Formats thread):

Groupie 40

I'm guessing the lemming you lost is the blocker from the second entrance to the right, as that was originally the one I lost in my first solution from a few weeks ago

Actually no; the one Blocker I have never been able to free was the one turning everyone around right before the exit. Or rather, I could have freed him with a Digger, but then he would have walked off to the right, dropped into the abyss and died. Your small modification of my approach, i.e. placing the Blocker inside a Miner shaft and then freeing him with a lemming dropping "into" the Blocker from above by having that lemming mine into the opposite direction (where he needs to mine anyway to allow the crowds from the left to get up) was the big reveal for me.

The rest basically "didn't matter", because it's completely up to the player how they get through the rest. As long as they save one additional Miner to do this, they at least still have a shot to save everyone.

I have attached my solution for "The Grand Puzzle" for comparison, so that you can see which Blocker I mean.

[IchoTolot]

Finally noticed the update and resolved the levels.

Groupie 40 is possible to 100% even with a spare builder as it seems.

What is still bothering me: Noisemaker 15 and Diva_24 still have the same level ID. It would be nice if one would get a new ID.

I still suspect a few backroutes in Groupie though.

[Strato Incendus]

Nice job on that 100% solution to the last level, IchoTolot!

The other three are sadly still partly backroutes. I didn't expect anyone to actually use the steel on Groupie 05 for something - I just put it there to cover the trigger of that second, rotated exit. (In the original version of the level, it was a fake exit, put there merely for decorative purposes. I think this is how it was done in Old-Formats Lemmings Migration as well.)

And I still have kaywhyn's replays to watch, so looks like at least one giant update will be due some time in the future. When I finally get to do that, I will renew the ID for Diva 24, thanks for pointing that out!

Maybe I can create the new ID in the Old-Formats version and then copy it over into the text file of the New-Formats version... if I make a random one in both versions, the New-Formats version won't recognise the replays from the Old-Formats version of that particular level and give a warning that the replay seems to refer to a different level...

[Strato Incendus]

Next update is attached to the starting post! This includes fixes to the Rockstar and Legend rank.

I haven't looked at any of kaywhyn's replays from the earlier ranks yet - the Rockstar fixes were more urgent, since that's where Arty is going to pick up his Let's Play again.

Given that he had already played that far, though, as well as with Flopsy's LP up to the end of Amateur (I think I also still got some replays from him well into the Professional rank), these earlier ranks have been much more tried and tested, so I don't expect that many further backroutes on those. And if so, then maybe some that are so obscure that only an adept level solver such as kaywhyn himself found them, but nobody who came before him.

Changelog

Rockstar 14 - steel
Rockstar 15 (just a cosmetic change here, added a flag )
Rockstar 31 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 38 - one-way arrows
Rockstar 39 - steel

Legend 03 - only in New Formats: made the entire ceiling steel
Legend 06 - fire traps
Legend 10 - 7 Platformers have been turned into pickup skills (here in New Formats it's a single pickup skill object with the count "7"; no need to place 7 separate ones like in Old Formats)
Legend 11 - steel
Legend 22 - steel
Legend 23 - one-way arrows
Legend 27 - steel
Legend 37 - steel
Legend 38 - steel

Groupie 13 - don't even quite remember what I changed here, it's been a while, and it still doesn't seem fixable - these thin terrain stripes that define the visual identity of the level will probably always allow for some sort of Bomber shortcuts

As for IchoTolot's semi-backroutes to those three Groupie levels - they might just have to remain this way. I still don't see any reliable ways to prevent them.

NOTE: This is not for the current 12.11 Release Candidate version of NeoLemmix yet. I have taken note of the levels that broke for those who already played this pack using the RC build, but I will not make any changes to the levels based on that until the RC is released as the new stable version, so all the changes are in fact set in stone.

I hope the level "In the shadows" on the Rockstar rank won't break for good based on the new Swimmer physics changes. The Swimmer has been around for such a long time that it's the last skill I'd have expected to go through any physics changes.

[IchoTolot]

Resolved every broken replay after the fixes. Replays attached.

Noisemaker 15 and  Diva_24 still have the same level ID!

[Strato Incendus]

Ah, I had in fact changed the level ID for Diva 24, but then I apparently forgot to add the updated level file to the new ZIP download. XD Fixed now!

Interestingly, the two levels already did have different IDs in Old Formats. Only in New Formats did they still have the same one.

I guess I must have made the first change after the conversion. So I copied the level ID from the Old-Formats version for Diva 24 the best I could (that level ID actually was shorter, so the New-Formats editor added a bunch of zeroes at the beginning).

[Strato Incendus]

Attached to the starting post is a small update containing backroute fixes for Rockstar 04 and Rockstar 07, as well as level fixes to make the pack playable with the latest change in Swimmer physics.

Changelog

Rockstar 04 and Rockstar 07: added steel.

Professional 07: This level was reported by IchoTolot as broken due to the physics change; however, the part that broke for him wasn't actually part of the intended solution. So I purposefully didn't change anything about this level. Maybe the Swimmer physics change has the convenient side effect of helping me slightly more to enforce the intended solution here.

Rockstar 18: Added a Swimmer and a Stoner and adjusted the save requirement to go along with that. This makes the solution differ only slightly from the former, intended one.
However, the timing becomes more precise as a result, and some parts of this solution may be much more obscure.
I guess it's not a spoiler at this point that you have to circumvent the new Swimmer physics somehow now to make the level work as it used to. And apparently, you can do so through clever skill usage. I was initially scared this level might just break entirely in New Formats - but gladly, this worry was unwarranted.

Rockstar 18 might be among the harder levels of the pack now - but I might be biased right now after having seen Arty struggle with it for an extended period of time to day, even though that was largely due to him overlooking something, as he admitted himself. I do think though that the changes I made to the New-Formats version now would have made all these things even easier for him to overlook ^^.

Therefore, I didn't implement this same change to Rockstar 18 in Old Formats. It might be possible to do that, actually, despite the different Swimmer physics, by slightly adjusting the pixels under water. But since this is not the originally intended solution, I don't want to break the Old-Formats solution without justification. In New-Formats, meanwhile, the physics change broke all working solutions anyway, so I had no choice but to adapt it. Thus, this level became more difficult now, not because I wanted it to, but because it had to.

[IchoTolot]

I updated my replays.

[IchoTolot]

And I missed to redo "Holy Diver"

Attached the new solution. Also you could use a swimmer hatch here as everybody needs to swim anyway. Would save the player 20-swimmer assignments.

[Apjjm]

I've started playing through this pack - I have attached my replays of the first two ranks so far.

Really enjoying the theme of the pack & music - great job with this! Even in the early ranks there are some relatively tricky ones. I also really like how well the levels and titles match up given the theming.

Spoiler

Noisemaker
I like how this rank Introduces various tricks and techniques with a puzzle where it still isn't immediately obvious how to solve even if with the pre-text!

9 - The train in this one looks great!
15 - I found trying to delay the lems suprisingly tricky on this one
24 - My favourite of the rank - I got stuck for a bit not realising I could turn the basher after he completed, and was trying to line things up to make him hit his head on a tunnel instead.
31 - Really like how the solution works with the title on this one!
40 - I enjoyed the talisman solution on this one - using the bit of terrain above the exit to turn around was very satisfying to figure out.

Amateur
3 - I liked the additional challenge for the talisman here
7 - I got stuck for a while on this one until I realised how I was supposed to go over the steel
11 - I'm always a fan of levels that use the original skills - this is really nice puzzle
14 - I managed to find the intended solution initially but couldn't quite spot how to save the climber. I came back to this one later after realising a trick I could use and solved the talisman version - really nice level!
17 - I tried quite a few things that almost worked. I think it is really nice that you have to bash into the water volume rather than go under it.
18 - Delaying the crowd had me stuck for quite a while. I have a feeling my solution here might be a bit forced but probably isn't too far off the intended one.
19 - I really like how much the level solution ties into the title again on this one
27 - I managed a save-all solution here which I think might not be quite as intended based on the post-level text!
29 - I think my solution might not be as intended here given I had quite a few skills leftover
35 - I really liked trying to puzzle out the talisman on this one - It gave me the idea to go back for 14 after I finished the rank. I liked the way the right side needed to be rescued here
40 - Nice level to finish off the rank, seemingly plenty of skills but they quickly run out!

[Apjjm]

Professional rank completed - replays attached.

Overall this was another statisfying rank solve, especially the levels that got me stuck. There were a few levels that did feel a bit too big in places (e.g. level 34).

Spoiler

3 - I liked this one quite a bit, given the rather limited options the skills are combined together in quite a few different ways.
6 - A really fun one to figure out, I suspect there are many solutions to this one!
9 - Got stuck on this one for a while as I just didn't consider the staircase idea.
12 - I liked the talisman here, I eventually managed a solution with 2 bashers that saved an extra lemming.
18 - This was another really nice one to solve, in particular how you rescue swimmers at the end.
19 - One of my favourites of the rank, how the blocker is released at the end is clever!
24 - Another fun one of everything
25 - Suprisingly tricky, the skills quickly run out on this one!
26 - This was the hardest solution to spot in the rank. In particular using the fence structure & gathering the lems up so they can safely reach the exit was well hidden in plain sight. Really good level though
27 - Another tricky level - there are a lot of ways to potentially make a path, but skills quickly run short given there is really only one destructive skill per obstacle.
34 - I did like the puzzle on this one, but the length of the bridge felt like it added too much unnecessary rewinding when adjusting timings
37 - I liked that this level had you send the back two lemmings ahead, rather than just the back one that usually happens when you assign a constructor to a lemming at the back.
38 - I stumbled across a rather tight timing that worked here when trying things out - this probably isn't the intended solution!
40 - A nice puzzle to finish off the rank, though I almost didn't spot the steel area needed to turn the lemmings around.

Looking forward to next rank

[Strato Incendus]

Glad you're enjoying it! Given how the situation here in Germany suggests we're going to spend a lot more time at home again soon, I'll probably have more time to delve into Lemmings again, too. Your replays are on my list now - I still haven't finished watching kaywhyn's commentary of Lemmicks yet, though.

[kaywhyn]

Glad you're enjoying it! Given how the situation here in Germany suggests we're going to spend a lot more time at home again soon, I'll probably have more time to delve into Lemmings again, too. Your replays are on my list now - I still haven't finished watching kaywhyn's commentary of Lemmicks yet, though.

Yes, I've noticed you stopped commenting after 5 video parts of the Lemmicks level solving commentary However, I do understand that you're busy and might had been into other video games for the past several months. After all, life isn't all about Lemmings despite everyone, or at least most, here being a fan of this iconic game from 30 years ago. So, not a problem at all, as they haven't gone anywhere, they'll be waiting right there indefinitely on my YT channel

Sorry to be adding more to your Lemmings list to watch again soon, but just as a heads up I will likely be starting an LP of New Formats LWT in the coming weeks. I figured this pack of yours would be a great way to round off 2021, and what better way than to take a tour around the world with a fictional Lemmings band I know that you will be looking forward to this very much, especially since my LP will be the very first for the New Formats version I also figured that far more than enough time has passed since I completed the Old Formats version of LWT (pretty much more about a year since I finished it) and hence it would be a great time to take up LPing this. Also, more than enough time has passed since I've seen Colorful Arty's LP of it (a little over half a year), though I haven't watched the beginning up to the final part before his 2 year hiatus from LPing the pack. Instead, I've watched all the parts starting from when he finally came back to finish the LP. I'll likely do so after I finish my playthrough