[SUG] New skill: Hookshotter

[Proxima]

This is a totally original skill idea that was absolutely not inspired by a different video game! Nonetheless, it's not just a joke suggestion -- I think this could actually work as a Lemmings skill.

The Hookshotter would stop moving and fire a hookshot straight forwards at high speed for a maximum of 64 pixels. The hookshot passes through (or in front of) friendly and neutral lemmings. If the hookshot hits a zombie, it kills it and disappears. If it strikes terrain, it latches on and the lemming becomes a "propeller", being propelled forward at the same high speed. During this phase:

* If the propeller reaches the place where the hookshot landed, the skill is completed and the lemming reverts to a faller or walker, depending on whether there is terrain under its foot.
* If the propeller strikes water or fire, it dies.
* If the propeller strikes terrain (either newly placed, or terrain at foot height that the hookshot travelled over) then it becomes a faller or walker instantly, cancelling the hookshot.
* If the propeller passes through a pick-up skill, it collects it and continues moving.
* Optionally (in the sense that we have an option as designers, not an in-game option!) if the propeller travels through a trap trigger, it sets it off without being killed. This would require all traps to have a new animation for this special case, so I imagine this won't be a popular suggestion, even though it has interesting puzzle potential.

Some optional skill synergies:

* Climber: If the hookshot strikes vertical terrain and the lemming successfully catches it, it can immediately climb the wall.
* Shimmier: If hookshotter is assigned during the reaching phase, it fires the hookshot upwards and can latch onto a ceiling up to 72 pixels from the ground and begin shimmying along it.
* Jumper: If hookshooter is assigned during a jump and before the apex of the jump, it fires the hookshot diagonally forwards and upwards.

[Crane]

If I'm undestanding correctly, what would the actual purpose of such a skill be beyond an anti-zombie gun.  Currently, all I can see is a means to propel a lemming forward slightly, which is what the Jumper would do more reliably.

[Proxima]

64 pixels is the same distance as splat height, only horizontal. So it's a way to get a single lemming to the other side of a gap or hazard, further than the Jumper can reach (I would guess), and with the ability to fire through narrow gaps in complex terrain setups. Of course, 64 is just a suggestion and it could be made longer if that seems like an improvement.

That said, the anti-zombie aspect shouldn't be underestimated either, considering how few tools we have for killing them at the moment!

[namida]

Especially with those edge cases around shimmiers / jumpers, as well as the "zombie killing", this sounds like it would be really, really complicated to implement...

[Crane]

If I had to choose a name, it would be grappler, and the tool be effectively a grappling hook.

[Strato Incendus]

Why only horizontal? The first skill I thought of when reading this was the Roper from L2, and that belongs into a category with several other skills that require two clicks - one for skill assignment, one for chosing the direction in which the projectile is supposed to move (Archer, Thrower, Roper, Spear Thrower etc.).

I already suggested the Roper as a fill-in for a downward builder. A Roper-like skill that can go into any direction of course would run the risk of being extremely broken, replacing builders and platformers at once in many levels (except for the limitation in distance the skill can cover, as you suggested 64 pixels).

But a skill that only does this horizontally, on the other hand, seems very limited in its use. If it's just like a wider Jumper, we could just as well bring up the Runner again as a means to increase the Jumper's reach. (And I argued against the Runner being introduced into NeoLemmix for precisely that reason, that it basically only adds puzzle potential in combination with Jumpers, and apart from that encourages timing- and execution-based mess.)

Thinking about it again now, the Runner may at least still provide a few more options to people who like flow control (just like the Shielder/Shover/Pusher discussion in the neighbouring thread). For me, personally, puzzles that rely on getting the relative timing of several lemmings to each other just right fall under "execution difficulty". That's probably why I have a hard time in both solving and coming up with good flow-control levels.

The Hookshotter (shouldn't it be shooter? ) acting as a Disarmer on the distance, apart from causing the hassle you already mentioned regarding the creation of additional trap animations for already existing traps, would also put an incredible burden on each new graphic-set designer to create two animations for every trap rather than just one, which will most likely lead to even fewer people taking the time to design custom traps.

[ccexplore]

The comparison to roper is really misleading.  The proposed skill is a movement skill that only brings a single lemming to a new location, not paving a new path that everyone can walk through like the roper would.  Also, the main distinguishing feature of this proposed skill appears to be its interactions with other objects (eg. collecting pick-ups) and lemmings (killing zombies) from a distance, which is definitely fairly unique compared to other existing skills.

Like many new skills proposed I don't know what to feel about it, but it's important to understand the skill as it is proposed, and not get confused with existing skills in other Lemmings games that don't actually have much in common with what's proposed.

[Strato Incendus]

I agree, and I absolutely wasn't trying to "strawman" Proxima's skill suggestion here! I was merely referring to the setup, as far as programming this skill might be concerned: Unless this skill should only work horizontally, a double click would be required, similar to indeed e.g. the Roper in L2, or also the turner in Lemmings 3D: one for selecting the lemming, one for assigning the direction.

A comparable one-click skill that creates a horizontal projectile - with the difference of not taking the lemming with it - is the L2 Bazooker. But that is a skill I find pretty hard to use, not because there wouldn't be enough use for an explosive projectile, but simply because, in contrast to the Archer / Roper etc., the direction cannot be controlled.

Especially the application for a transition from Hookshotter to Shimmier, this would only make sense if the hook is actually able to hit a horizontal ceiling line. How is the player supposed to accomplish this if you can't have the hook shoot at least slightly upwards?

[namida]

Bumping this as this is a skill that's getting at least some interest in the "Final New Skill" topic (and thus, if people want to discuss it in more depth, this will avoid a duplicate topic).

[WillLem]

Very much in favour of this as an idea; I also think it could be good if the hookshot were fired diagonally upwards instead. Either way seems ace though.

[∫tan x dx]

Just a thought regarding the ability to kill zombies: if this skill could kill any lemming (not just zombies), then it could serve a role in puzzles without zombies in a very simple way.

Allow the hookshot to kill blockers, thereby freeing crowds of lemmings.

It could also theoretically be used to remove lemmings whose current tasks could spell disaster. Need a builder/platformer/stacker to stop at just the right place? Shoot him!
Does a digger need to stop at a certain height? Hookshot!

Granted, these sort of puzzle elements would likely be very difficult/contrived to set up and pull off. But I think the lemmings community could find some very tricksy things to do with such an ability.

[Proxima]

I definitely like that idea, but the added puzzle potential of a lethal hookshot has to be weighed against the possible annoyance of being unable to hookshot where you would like to, because lemmings are in the way.