NeoLemmix 24-bit/Hi-Res Graphics & Sprites

[WillLem]

Basher - During the 1st and 4th of the frames where terrain is removed, the lemming's hand probably needs to be slightly further forward.

Digger - This one's getting a new sprite anyway; but an issue I noticed - the digger's arms extend too far downwards during the dig animation.

Drowner - Earlier point about the snorkel still stands; otherwise no problems here.

Fencer - Very poor match for physics. I think I've figured out the core "cause" of this - your sprite holds the lance much further forward from his body than the low-res ones.

Shimmier - The animation is very "jerky". I don't think this is as simple as shifting the frames left / right either.

I'll have a look at these as soon as possible and send some replacements over. I've been majorly busy recently but I should get some time to do these this week.

I've slightly tweaked the colors from the ones you used, so they're more similar to the low-res colors

I figured that might need to be done as the sprites were looking a bit orange, like Lemmings with fake tan! I'll use your colour scheme for future sprites.

-WillLem

[WillLem]

Hi Namida,

I've made the necessary adjustments to the following sprites:

Basher - frames 1 and 4: the arm/hand has come forward by 2 pixels. There is still a gap of about 1 pixel between the hand and the terrain in these frames, but it's the best compromise between fitting the mask and maintaining the smoothness of motion.

Digger - arms now don't extend down quite so much - I'm not sure what I was thinking when I drew these, must have been tired!

Drowner - removed the snorkel; you're right, it didn't really make sense. I still have the original with-snorkel sprite handy tho if anyone prefers it

Fencer - moved the upper body back by 2 pixels (the maximum possible) and shortened the lance by 2 pixels. The lance still extends into the terrain slightly further than the mask, but it's definitely a better fit than previously, and looks more convincing. I've also animated the Lemming's non-lance arm during the "jump" to make this look a bit better as well.

Shimmier - turns out this was just a case of moving the individual frames left and right to make sure that the hand that's grabbing the terrain remains stationary; I had to painstakingly work out how many pixels each frame needed moving by, but I got there in the end! Also moved the entire animation 2 pixels backwards L & R respectively because the 'final' hand was grabbing too far forwards from the edge of the terrain. Finally, tidied up the feet a bit as well. This is much better now, but I'm happy to take another look if you think any further improvements need to be made.

That's it for now, the only other thing I've noted is that the swimmer sprite appears a bit too high on certain types of water (most notably the creamy coloured water in the brick set). It looks fine on most of the other water types tho so not sure if it's worth bothering with. EDIT - I suppose it would be a case of reducing the size of the trigger area for that particular water type...?

I'll have a look at doing the L & R digger sprite soon as well. Let me know if there's anything else you need.

-WillLem

[namida]

That's it for now, the only other thing I've noted is that the swimmer sprite appears a bit too high on certain types of water (most notably the creamy coloured water in the brick set). It looks fine on most of the other water types tho so not sure if it's worth bothering with. EDIT - I suppose it would be a case of reducing the size of the trigger area for that particular water type...?

Yeah, this is an issue that occurs even in low-res. Not all water objects are best suited to Swimmers; that's just how it is, as some of them predate the Swimmer skill. We did recently have a discussion about whether fixes are needed to official object trigger areas, but ultimately only two objects got actual changes (with a couple more receiving graphical, but not physics, changes).

I'm not particularly worried about visual issues if they occur in low-res as well; those can either be left as-is, or addressed at some point in the future for both resolutions at the same time. For now, I'm only worried about high-res-exclusive issues (or if the high-res mode's addition has caused new issues in low-res).

[namida]

I've tried out these sprites now. The Basher, Digger, Drowner and Shimmier all look great now!

The Fencer is the only one that still doesn't feel right to me. I think that to really get this right, it needs to more closely mimic the pose of the low-res one (lance held by his side, not stretched out in front, in the opposite hand from what the high-res sprite does), but that would be a lot of work. Otherwise, for the lance to be in the correct spot, the feet would have to be way off (indeed, it's possible to make the lance work by instead having the feet really wrong, just by shifting the FOOT_X position in scheme.nxmi). Maybe see if anyone else has any thoughts?

( For those of you who want to see the Fencer sprite in action but don't want to set up the high-res experimental: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994bev-ukm8 )

In terms of "anything else", I think it's just the digger (and of course the Xmas sprites, if you're still up for doing those). Did you have a specific idea in mind for the digger? Keep in mind we need a low-res sprite too for this one - it's fine if the high-res one has some extra direction indicators that the low-res doesn't (like how the blockers in high-res also have the signs on one side or the other, but both resolutions have the limited head-turning), but there needs to be some clear indicator of direction that's present in both.

[WillLem]

I've tried out these sprites now. The Basher, Digger, Drowner and Shimmier all look great now!

Awesome

The Fencer is the only one that still doesn't feel right to me. I think that to really get this right, it needs to more closely mimic the pose of the low-res one (lance held by his side, not stretched out in front, in the opposite hand from what the high-res sprite does), but that would be a lot of work. Otherwise, for the lance to be in the correct spot, the feet would have to be way off (indeed, it's possible to make the lance work by instead having the feet really wrong, just by shifting the FOOT_X position in scheme.nxmi). Maybe see if anyone else has any thoughts?

Could the Fencer simply be positioned slightly backwards from its current spot? (or is this what you mean by shifting the FOOT_X position?) I've attached another version here with the non-lance arm resting on the Fencer's waist, which allows the entire Lemming to be moved back another 2 pixels within the animation. I also shortened the lance by another pixel. This is a more pleasing result in terms of it's correspondence with the mask, however now the feet are totally off-position! I think it's worth persevering with this though, because the hi-res version of the Fencer is just that bit more... Fencery!

( For those of you who want to see the Fencer sprite in action but don't want to set up the high-res experimental: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994bev-ukm8 )

Heads up - this video is appearing as a blank screen...!

In terms of "anything else", I think it's just the digger (and of course the Xmas sprites, if you're still up for doing those). Did you have a specific idea in mind for the digger?both.

I'm on the Xmas sprites - I'll try to get these to you by the end of the weekend. As for the Digger sprite, since this involves creating a completely new animation I want to make sure we have an idea we're happy with before I go ahead with this. So far, my ideas are:

1 Leave it as it is, but keep the Lemming's face pointing towards the direction they're facing throughout the animation rather than swishing left to right (I've attached a version of this for each resolution). I'd personally vote for this as the simplest and most elegant idea (similar to the blocker idea), and since it's the closest to the classic Digger sprite we all know and love.

2 Have the Lemming dig with their front paws rabbit-style, tossing the earth out backwards between their legs. A humorous idea that would be fun to animate, but isn't as downwardly-oriented as the motion of the Digger. Maybe this would work as a new diagonally-downwards skill instead...?

3 Have the Lemming pull out a spade and dig garden-style, putting their foot on the spade and then tossing out the earth behind them (they'd be facing in the direction they're moving). Again, would be fun to animate. My only issue with this idea is that it might not be as quick as the current Digger sprite, which moves at a fair old lick, and still look convincing.

I'm happy to try these and any other ideas that people might have, but tbh it'd be good to have a bit of a consensus on an idea before I begin work on it.

[namida]

1 Leave it as it is, but keep the Lemming's face pointing towards the direction they're facing throughout the animation rather than swishing left to right (I've attached a version of this for each resolution). I'd personally vote for this as the simplest and most elegant idea (similar to the blocker idea), and since it's the closest to the classic Digger sprite we all know and love.

This looks pretty workable to me, at least from looking at the spritesheets. I'll try them out in action later.

2 Have the Lemming dig with their front paws rabbit-style, tossing the earth out backwards between their legs. A humorous idea that would be fun to animate, but isn't as downwardly-oriented as the motion of the Digger. Maybe this would work as a new diagonally-downwards skill instead...?

That won't happen; it'd essentially just be a duplicate of the miner (even if it has some subtle differences, it's too similar overall). And especially for low-res, I prefer something that remains close to the original sprite.

Could the Fencer simply be positioned slightly backwards from its current spot? (or is this what you mean by shifting the FOOT_X position?) I've attached another version here with the non-lance arm resting on the Fencer's waist, which allows the entire Lemming to be moved back another 2 pixels within the animation. I also shortened the lance by another pixel. This is a more pleasing result in terms of it's correspondence with the mask, however now the feet are totally off-position! I think it's worth persevering with this though, because the hi-res version of the Fencer is just that bit more... Fencery!

Keeping the feet position - or rather, the overall position of the lemming's body (I've generally lined it up based on the middle pixel of the body, rounded towards the back where applicable) - is quite important too, IMO.

[namida]

Okay, so I've looked at them in-game.

Fencer - I think this is as good as we're going to get in terms of body / lance horizontal positioning. So we'll go with that. However, I think we need some minor slight changes to the "slash" animation. I think we need to insert a frame between the 3rd and 4th one with the lance even lower. Then, to compensate, we'd need to remove one frame, no earlier than the 7th one (or the 8th, after the new frame is inserted). If you watch the animation frame-by-frame (or even just in slow-motion) in NL, you should be able to see what I mean.

Digger - After actually watching this in-game, I don't feel this is noticable enough, in either resolution. I've attached my attempt at making something that I think should work well (only low-res, though) - what do you think about this? (Replace the files in styles/default/lemmings; the updated scheme is for foot positioning.) It could probably use some tidying up as well, the animation looks a bit weird at certain points, but the general idea is - it's as similar as possible (within my abilities... xD) to the normal one, but the lemming always throws the dirt behind the direction he's facing.

[WillLem]

Fencer - I think this is as good as we're going to get in terms of body / lance horizontal positioning. So we'll go with that. However, I think we need some minor slight changes to the "slash" animation. I think we need to insert a frame between the 3rd and 4th one with the lance even lower. Then, to compensate, we'd need to remove one frame, no earlier than the 7th one (or the 8th, after the new frame is inserted). If you watch the animation frame-by-frame (or even just in slow-motion) in NL, you should be able to see what I mean.

See attached - I've implemented this suggestion and the "slash" part of the animation does indeed look more convincing now. I've also moved the Lemming forward 1 pixel so that it doesn't appear so much to be floating in mid-air (although this is still somewhat of an issue due to the nature of the stance). I think this version is the best balance of all factors; I'm more than happy to revisit this sprite at a later date if necessary, we'll see what the general feedback is (or if anyone else wants to have a go at making some improvements).

Digger - After actually watching this in-game, I don't feel this is noticable enough, in either resolution. I've attached my attempt at making something that I think should work well (only low-res, though) - what do you think about this? (Replace the files in styles/default/lemmings; the updated scheme is for foot positioning.) It could probably use some tidying up as well, the animation looks a bit weird at certain points, but the general idea is - it's as similar as possible (within my abilities... xD) to the normal one, but the lemming always throws the dirt behind the direction he's facing.

I like this idea and it's certainly workable, buuut if I have to be 100% honest, I think at the moment I just prefer the original Digger sprite to any of the ideas we've discussed. Give me some more time with this one, I'll see what I can come up with.

Xmas sprites should hopefully be ready by the end of the weekend, I'll send them over as a pack.

I've also attached a version of the HR Blocker sprite with double the amount of frames. The intention here is to have the stop sign stay still a little bit longer between "twirls". What do you think?

[namida]

I like this idea and it's certainly workable, buuut if I have to be 100% honest, I think at the moment I just prefer the original Digger sprite to any of the ideas we've discussed. Give me some more time with this one, I'll see what I can come up with.

Strictly speaking I prefer the original too, but it's important that the direction is clearly visible on all - or at least, most - frames of the animation. This trumps any "keep the original" preference in this case, as a digger's direction is important. (Now on the other hand, the direction of an exiter or ohnoer for example isn't so important, so I don't really care if they don't clearly show their direction.)

I'll check the new sprites out later.

[WillLem]

Finished the new-skills hi-res Xmas sprites! - see attached.

I think these look pretty good; I've tested them in the experimental HR build. Do let me know if you'd like any improvements to be made.

I've also included the walker because I noticed that there was a stray white pixel in one of the frames - this has now been corrected!

Generally, with the HR stuff, these are the sprites I'll probably want to look at revisiting before the release of 12.8:

Digger - I'm sure we'll come up with something direction-wise. Another idea I had was to have the digger use a large pneumatic drill - this would be fairly easy to animate and could have the Lemming completely facing left or right. I've attached a still graphic of what this could look like. Thoughts?

Fencer - We've got it as good as it can be for now, but I'm sure I can do better. I'll have another look at this when I have some spare time.

Glider - I love the HR glider sprite, it was one of my favourites to make, buuut I'm thinking the overall shape of it needs to be improved slightly - it's appearing bigger than the other sprites and just looks a bit out of place. Again, its great for now but I'll revisit when I can.

Floater - it's a minor point, but is there any reason you don't want the red and white striped umbrella? I notice you've changed it back to yellow... I chose red and white since that's the colour scheme that appears on the cover art for Lemmings. Again, not a major issue because I suppose anyone that wants red and white can customise the sprite themselves if they so wish, but I just think it'd be good to offer it as the default option for HR.

Other than that, I'm really happy with all the other sprites and I think that 12.8 is going to look fantastic!

[namida]

Floater - it's a minor point, but is there any reason you don't want the red and white striped umbrella? I notice you've changed it back to yellow... I chose red and white since that's the colour scheme that appears on the cover art for Lemmings. Again, not a major issue because I suppose anyone that wants red and white can customise the sprite themselves if they so wish, but I just think it'd be good to offer it as the default option for HR.

Because the umbrella color is one of the things that alternate styles can recolor. For example, see l2_highland.

Regarding the alternate digger, two potential issues come to mind with the drill sprite.
a) How well does it work for low-res?
b) It's quite a significant change, so there'd need to be a pretty strong consensus in favor of it.

I'll try out the Xmas sprites and get back to you about them later.

[namida]

A quick look at the Xmas ones, I need to fix up some alignment issues etc with them. That's no problem - but I just don't feel like doing it right this second, so I'll give overall feedback on the Xmas ones later, still.

I did try out the new blocker and fencer. The fencer is definitely better, but still feels a bit awkward. I think part of the issue here is that the low-res animation is a bit awkward in the first place, too. We can consider changes to that (just as long as there are no changes to the physics) if needed. I really like the blocker!

Could you do the same thing with the Xmas blocker? While you're working on that - I also noticed that the blocker's candy cane looks like he's just moving it 90 degrees then back, rather than a full 360 degree spin - is that intentional? (FYI - We can change the frame count if needed, including that it can be different from the non-Xmas blocker's frame count, but please keep it a multiple of 8. I've attached a scheme.nxmi / blocker.png for low-res with 16 frames. It just duplicates the first 8 frames, follow this pattern if you need to go to 24 or 32 etc.)

I'm happy to (another time, though) sort out the issues with lining up the spritesheets, making the recoloring work, etc. However, if you feel like doing this - line the high-res sprites up with a 200% nearest-neighbour zoom of the low-res ones; and take a look at the $SHADES section in styles/default/lemmings/scheme.nxmi for how to get the recoloring to work - DON'T add extra $SPRITESET_RECOLORING entries, as that would mean extra $COLORS or $STATE_RECOLORING (as applicable) entries are needed on the other side too.

[WillLem]

I did try out the new blocker and fencer. The fencer is definitely better, but still feels a bit awkward. I think part of the issue here is that the low-res animation is a bit awkward in the first place, too. We can consider changes to that (just as long as there are no changes to the physics) if needed.

Happy to discuss/try out ideas on this; I'll keep thinking over it and see what I can come up with. If people are open to the idea of a completely different skill which has the exact same mask/destruction as the Fencer, there might even be the possibility of something that's easier to animate/looks better in both resolutions as well. Thoughts?

Could you do the same thing with the Xmas blocker? While you're working on that - I also noticed that the blocker's candy cane looks like he's just moving it 90 degrees then back, rather than a full 360 degree spin - is that intentional?

Good shout; I've now animated it as a full twirl and doubled up the sprites as per the normal HR blocker (see attached).

I'm happy to (another time, though) sort out the issues with lining up the spritesheets, making the recoloring work, etc. However, if you feel like doing this - line the high-res sprites up with a 200% nearest-neighbour zoom of the low-res ones; and take a look at the $SHADES section in styles/default/lemmings/scheme.nxmi for how to get the recoloring to work - DON'T add extra $SPRITESET_RECOLORING entries, as that would mean extra $COLORS or $STATE_RECOLORING (as applicable) entries are needed on the other side too.

I'm happy to do the re-aligning, but I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of recoloring... please can you clarify this?

[namida]

Happy to discuss/try out ideas on this; I'll keep thinking over it and see what I can come up with. If people are open to the idea of a completely different skill which has the exact same mask/destruction as the Fencer, there might even be the possibility of something that's easier to animate/looks better in both resolutions as well. Thoughts?

This would need to be its own topic, to draw enough attention to get community input. However - I'm open to this if enough people are okay with it.

I'm happy to do the re-aligning, but I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of recoloring... please can you clarify this?

Don't worry; leave it to me.

[namida]

Alright, I've had a look at the Xmas ones. Lined-up versions attached, along with needed changes to low-res sprites and scheme.nxmi. Color scheme should also be fixed, where applicable.

Blocker - candy cane's good, but the blocker still turns his head in both directions.
Digger - needs a directional animation, like the default style does.
Disarmer - I recolored this one a bit.
Miner - The first frame and last two frames had the same issue as one frame in the default sprites did, in that the left / right facing sprites were in slightly different poses which caused problems for lining them up (not to mention it can be confusing to players). I've fixed the first frame, but the last two frames are a bit trickier, so all I've done is a "dumb" move of the body to the correct position, without changing the arm positions / etc - it needs further work.
Shimmier - The frame starting at Y=264, and the one after it, it feels like quite a sudden jump between these two when watching this animating
Shrugger - I had to slightly shrink some of the frames vertically; it might need a few minor touchups

It's a known issue that there's glitches with the recoloring (for athletes, selected lemming, etc) on these sprites. This is a bug in NeoLemmix, not in the styles - my current theory is that it relates to rounding errors when calculating the color-shifts between colors that are marked as "shades" of each other.