NeoLemmix 24-bit/Hi-Res Graphics & Sprites

[WillLem]

FAO Namida & NeoLemmix developers, plus anyone who's interested!:

Since I've started working on the sprites & graphics for a potential Hi-Res mod for NeoLemmix, I thought it best to continue sharing them here rather than on the poll.

So... here is an example of the following:

- Climber sprite set extracted from WinLemm & adapted/recoloured
- Swimmer sprite set, complete with flippers and snorkel!
- Glider sprite set
- Floater button
- Restart button

These have largely been adapted from the WinLemm sprites and the SuperLemmini button sets, I've changed to colours to look more natural & pleasing and added a few little details to give it my own flavour/humour

I'll give the remaining sprites & buttons the same treatment and upload them here. I'll also redo the low-res Disarmer sprites so they have their own action.

Feedback very welcome: do you like these? Can they be used with a low-res map? Any ideas/suggestions?

[NieSch]

Nice work! I like the humorous touch.

[namida]

The lemming sprites look very nice!

The button panels aren't particularly useful though, as they don't fit with how NL works. Take a look in styles/default/panel - notice how we have skill_panels.png that contains a few panel backgrounds (this basically works by using the first one for the first panel, second for the 2nd, etc, if it runs out, it loops back to the first one for the next panel), and then icon graphics such as icon_restart.png that just have the icon graphic with a blank background.

With skill icons (except Disarmer, which currently works the same way as above, but this will likely change once we have a proper disarmer sprite), this goes one step further: only the background gets used. The actual icon itself is generated using the lemming sprite. (This is a new thing in recent versions of NL.)

As it looks like there's serious interest in making this happen, and not just tossing around of "this would be a neat idea, right?", I'll give some strong consideration to getting these into use once V12.7 doesn't need much more work, and maybe even having the feature ready for V12.8 (although no promises here, and if it misses that, it'll be V12.10, as only even-numbered updates make major graphical changes from V12.8 onwards). To content creators - don't panic, the use of high-res graphics will be completely optional, and you can continue shipping styles with only low-res graphics (indeed, I likely won't update my existing ones to high-res); you'll just have the ability to also ship high-res graphics for those who want to use them. We'll discuss closer to the time whether it's "you must provide low-res" or "you can provide just high-res, and NL will downscale".

[ccexplore]

With skill icons (except Disarmer, which currently works the same way as above, but this will likely change once we have a proper disarmer sprite), this goes one step further: only the background gets used. The actual icon itself is generated using the lemming sprite. (This is a new thing in recent versions of NL.)

Hmm, I hope I'm not bringing up an old debate, but seeing what WillLem posted here makes me question not having an option for skill icons to not be auto-generated using lemming sprites?  If the skill icons will be quite a bit larger in size than the sprites, then it makes sense to me to at least have an option for the icons not always be auto-generated from sprites, so that the icons can incorporate more details that wouldn't work with the sprites (due to either having less pixels in the sprites, and/or because the sprites need to be animated rather than being still images like the icons).

[namida]

Hmm, I hope I'm not bringing up an old debate, but seeing what WillLem posted here makes me question not having an option for skill icons to not be auto-generated using lemming sprites?  If the skill icons will be quite a bit larger in size than the sprites, then it makes sense to me to at least have an option for the icons not always be auto-generated from sprites, so that the icons can incorporate more details that wouldn't work with the sprites (due to either having less pixels in the sprites, and/or because the sprites need to be animated rather than being still images like the icons).

Not an old debate - the feature existed, and was removed because it meant extra work for custom content creators, who almost invariably either didn't change the skill icons or replaced them with copies based on their custom sprites. I can't think of a single case where outright custom ones that differ from the respective custom lemming sprites were in use. By comparison - the current setup will automatically adjust to any custom lemming sprites, on a per-level basis. The only complaint I received about this removal was from someone who thought it'd mean that they'd always have default lemming sprites on the skill panel, and didn't realise that in a level that uses custom sprites, those custom sprites would be used to generate the skill panel as well - they were fine with it once I explained this.

As such - this feature is pretty unlikely to return.

[ccexplore]

Hmm, it's possible I misremembered, but is the skill icon for floater posted by WillLem above the exact same graphic as the one of the frames for WinLemm floater sprite?  I'm not so sure (but don't have WinLemm around to compare)?  Are the sizes (width and height) even similar?

If the icons are basically same size as the sprite then I guess it matters a lot less.

I suppose the fact that past custom content creators never customized the icons differently from the sprites do speak volumes about demand for feature, that is a fair enough point.

[WillLem]

Nice work! I like the humorous touch.

Thanks NieSch. These were done in the silly spirit of the original game, hope I've managed to do it justice

The lemming sprites look very nice!

The button panels aren't particularly useful though, as they don't fit with how NL works. Take a look in styles/default/panel - notice how we have skill_panels.png that contains a few panel backgrounds (this basically works by using the first one for the first panel, second for the 2nd, etc, if it runs out, it loops back to the first one for the next panel), and then icon graphics such as icon_restart.png that just have the icon graphic with a blank background.

Thanks Namida, means a lot that you like these. I'm enjoying the project so I'll definitely keep going with the others.

As for the buttons... I can't help but think that it would be great to have a nice looking chunky button panel. I like the smooth, "clickable" button look & feel of Lemmini. Would it be a massive pain to implement a different panel style for hi-res mode?

If so, I'm happy to simply do an upscale of the existing panel components and provide sprites/graphics for all buttons including skills. That way, you can keep the coding the way it is whilst retaining a unique look for the skill buttons (rather than them defaulting to the skill sprite - unless this is what you'd prefer, of course).

Again, happy to help with all of this and do whatever's needed to make the finished article look as fantastic as possible. I'm really glad that you're on board for going ahead with it as a mini project, and I agree that it's best not to rush. It's better to take a decent amount of time over it to get it as solid as possible.

Hmm, it's possible I misremembered, but is the skill icon for floater posted by WillLem above the exact same graphic as the one of the frames for WinLemm floater sprite?  I'm not so sure (but don't have WinLemm around to compare)?  Are the sizes (width and height) even similar?

If the icons are basically same size as the sprite then I guess it matters a lot less.

I suppose the fact that past custom content creators never customized the icons differently from the sprites do speak volumes about demand for feature, that is a fair enough point.

I used one frame of the WinLemm floater sprite; re-coloured it, gave it an outline for more definition, added pupils for eyes, and changed the umbrella colour to red and white. I like the idea of having a "Super Sprite" as the button icons, an approach that quite a few versions of Lemmings have taken over the years.

Thanks all for your replies. It's great to feel a part of the community Watch this space for more sprites coming soon!

- WillLem

[WillLem]

Revisited the Glider today to tidy it up a bit. Also, here's the Disarmer and the Platformer! Let me know what you think.

Cheers,

- WillLem

[namida]

Did you create a low-res version of the disarmer sprite? If so, let's try and get that one in to the upcoming NL12.7 update, or even possibly the upcoming styles update - that's something we can make use of right away. (Obviously, I'd prefer the low res one didn't have these cartoony details - I do like them, but all the other low-res sprites don't have them, so for the sake of consistency I feel they should be a feature only of the high-res ones.)

On a side note - before you get to these skills, there's a consideration that's come up in discussion for Diggers and Blockers - that we should have sprites that clearly indicate which direction they're facing, unlike the current ones which are basically symmetrical. I mention this because it makes more sense to do that the first time, rather than to have to redo them later for that. (This, in general, would extend to any state, other than animations that the lemming will no longer exist after completing, either because they die or because they exit; but of the existing ones, IIRC only those two, plus Disarmer which needs a new sprite anyway, has this issue. I guess Drowner too, as they can recover if you assign them a Swimmer, but that's such an obscure case that I don't think it needs a special effort for this.)

[WillLem]

Did you create a low-res version of the disarmer sprite? If so, let's try and get that one in to the upcoming NL12.7 update, or even possibly the upcoming styles update - that's something we can make use of right away. (Obviously, I'd prefer the low res one didn't have these cartoony details - I do like them, but all the other low-res sprites don't have them, so for the sake of consistency I feel they should be a feature only of the high-res ones.)

Done! (see attached) I've de-cartoonified it and also re-coloured it to be consistent with the other original NL sprites. Let me know your thoughts, it'd be great to see this as part of the next update!

On a side note - before you get to these skills, there's a consideration that's come up in discussion for Diggers and Blockers - that we should have sprites that clearly indicate which direction they're facing, unlike the current ones which are basically symmetrical. I mention this because it makes more sense to do that the first time, rather than to have to redo them later for that. (This, in general, would extend to any state, other than animations that the lemming will no longer exist after completing, either because they die or because they exit; but of the existing ones, IIRC only those two, plus Disarmer which needs a new sprite anyway, has this issue. I guess Drowner too, as they can recover if you assign them a Swimmer, but that's such an obscure case that I don't think it needs a special effort for this.)

After some deliberation on this, I finally came up with the idea of the Blocker holding a STOP sign (see attached). I didn't want it to be too different from the original, plus it needs to remain clear that the Blocker affects Lemmings on either side. So, it's basically the same animation but the Lemming is holding a sign in the same hand as the direction they're facing. It's a possible solution anyway, let me know what you think.

As for the Digger, are you thinking having a brand new sprite that faces each way? That could work, although again I'm not sure about straying too far from the original with the classic skills. I'll put this as a last priority if the discussion is still ongoing. Having said that, maybe seeing a sprite in action might swing the decision... I'll see how I get on with the others first.

- WillLem

[namida]

Ooh, I like that blocker sprite!

With the low-res disarmer - I have to ask, what are the brown pixels near his feet meant to be?

[WillLem]

Ooh, I like that blocker sprite!

With the low-res disarmer - I have to ask, what are the brown pixels near his feet meant to be?

It's meant to be a tool belt, happy to remove it if you'd prefer. Glad you like the Blocker!

[namida]

Yeah, I do think without the belt would be better for the low-res sprites. (Hypothetically, it would be pretty cool for all sprites to have it once a lemming becomes a disarmer; but I also feel this would become too much effort - especially taking into account that anyone creating custom sprites would then need to follow suit. So I prefer to keep the low-res sprites pretty simple - but the high-res ones, yes, let's keep the cartoony look, it's really neat!)

[WillLem]

Yeah, I do think without the belt would be better for the low-res sprites. (Hypothetically, it would be pretty cool for all sprites to have it once a lemming becomes a disarmer; but I also feel this would become too much effort - especially taking into account that anyone creating custom sprites would then need to follow suit. So I prefer to keep the low-res sprites pretty simple - but the high-res ones, yes, let's keep the cartoony look, it's really neat!)

Interestingly, I had the same thought - maybe Lemmings should keep the yellow hat & hi-vis when they become a disarmer. But then I realised that all sprites would have to be edited to follow suit (no pun intended), so hmmm... maybe not at this stage!

Here's the low-res Disarmer sans belt

I've also done the Stacker; quick question regerding this one, Builder and Platformer - the WinLemm sprites include dark brown 2x8 pixel rectangles to represent the building blocks, but then these are recoloured in the actual game. How does in work in NL, can these blocks be recoloured according to the level type/style? And what is the exact pixel size of a Stacker's building block (in hi-res)?

Finally, I'm sending these over at the moment just so you can see the work that's being done and get some ideas about how you could implement hi-res; I'll probably go over them all again once they're finished just to make a couple of final tweaks before sending over a full pack of the final versions. For a start, I'm thinking each Lemming needs a little cowlick of green hair: the WinLemm sprites don't include this, so I'll want to make sure that's included in the final versions! Let me know if there are any details you'd like to include as well.

All best,

- WillLem

[namida]

I've also done the Stacker; quick question regerding this one, Builder and Platformer - the WinLemm sprites include dark brown 2x8 pixel rectangles to represent the building blocks, but then these are recoloured in the actual game. How does in work in NL, can these blocks be recoloured according to the level type/style? And what is the exact pixel size of a Stacker's building block (in hi-res)?

Yes, these can be recolored in NL. Just pick any color that isn't used for any part of the sprites that shouldn't be recolored, and use that for the builder bricks and destruction particles. To be clear, this color should (a) be the same between different sprites, ie: builder, stacker etc should have the same color for this as each other; and (b) it must not be used for shouldn't-recolor pixels anywhere in the spriteset, not just in these animations; but it is fine if something outside the spriteset (eg. terrain pieces) uses them.

I should have mentioned earlier: Ignore the "_mask.png" files that some sprites have in the existing NL sprites. These are what current versions use to do the recoloring of bricks / destructive particles, but this is changing in the future to the above setup. Therefore, using the unique-color approach will be the right way by the time NL has a high-res feature.