[NeoLemmix] NeoLemmix Introduction Pack

[namida]

And now finishing off the rest of the rank...

(Note: Since none of the levels I haven't done yet were included in the changelog, I didn't redownload.)

Spoiler

"Steps and Pixels" - The diagonal pixel thing only occurs in one place, and I think it could be easily overlooked, and is even possible to avert altogether EDIT: no, it isn't, I wasn't quite thinking straight when I wrote that. I think more emphasis on that is needed - maybe some downwards steps with it near the end? That aside, this level is pretty good - and the skill queueing feature makes it a lot more suitable for new players than it would have been previously!

"Stepblocked" - To me, it wasn't immediately obvious that I wouldn't need the Walker later, and thus I used a trick that might not be expected (RR99 right away, last lemming builds instead of first) to avert the need for it near the start. Even if the player realises the walker is unneeded, should they choose to assign the builder first, the 3rd lemming gets in the way of the most obvious spot to assign the builder, making the shadow hard to see. I wonder - could the release rate be a bit lower here?

"Concentrated Force" - The save requirement as it stands requires timing the crowd release so the crowd merges with the basher. I don't feel this adds any value to the level as a tutorial, so I suggest dropping the save requirement to 43.

"Blocked In Your Favor" - Very nice level!

"Combine & Conquer" - Saying "a well placed builder can keep a Fencer going" is misleading. A fencer will always continue up a builder bridge. No issues with the level itself IMO, although I think demonstrating the fencer case too would be easy enough.

"Equal Distribution" - This one has me stumped. Which would be great in a normal pack, but a bit worrying in a tutorial pack.

"Special Staircase" - The builder not only doesn't need to be interrupted, but cannot be interrupted. Instead, he should be allowed to hit his head. Is this intentional?

"Stepping Up To The Stars" - I had a walker left over - the 2nd basher didn't need to be stopped. (Perhaps you intended a fencer or miner to be used right at the top? I used the miner near the start, then fencer, basher, stacker, fencer, basher, platformer.)

Aside from the level-specific feedbacks, I wonder if there should be a level or two gap between a tutorial level and the practice level that uses what it taught? Enough that the player has to think more than "what did the immediately previous level teach me?", but recent enough that it's still fairly fresh in the player's mind.

[IchoTolot]

Alright, here are my answers:

Spoiler

"Steps and Pixels"

An additional diagonal drop near the exit is a good idea.

"Stepblocked"

Will make the Walker a pick-up, lock and lower the RR.

"Concentrated Force"

This is a slight introduction/training to timing things as well. To the compression tutorial it adds nothing, but I also want to enforce a bit of timing/precision from time to time. Players need to learn it and this is a rather clear and easy case.

"Combine & Conquer"

Will rework the text + make an extra training level with the fencer.

"Equal Distribution"

That's very surprising! Will lower entropy through pick-ups again.

"Special Staircase"

Will rework the builder part.

"Stepping Up To The Stars"

Will enforce the additional canceling.

As I completely forgot a basic trick (Builder Walls), the fencer+builder case should be trained and I was already unsure to place digger stircases in advanced, the Basic Training rank will get 5 additional levels!

So new plan for additional levels:

Basic training:
- Precise Digger/Miner/Basher top-down Staircases
- Builder blocks
- Fencer+Builder Training
+ 2 more

Advanced Training:
- Miner+Platformer,Basher+platformer staircases
- Basher through parallel builders
- Stoner+Stacker step-up
- Digger assignments at the last moment before he falls
- Basher staircases without builders/walkers. 3 parts: 1) Block+Bomb. 2) Block+Dig+Bash/Dig+Block+Bash. 3) Without a crowd and 2 bashers: Block+Dig+Block+Bash
+ X

As for fixes:

Spoiler

- 6-pixel step up, Stepping through Terrain (diagonal drop at the exit)
- Training: Step-up (Walker pick-up, lock+lower RR)
- Platformer+Basher, Builder+Miner, Digger+Stacker (change pre-text)
- Training: Miner+Builder, Cloner (lower entropy)
- Walker Interrupt: Platformer, Builder, Basher, Miner, Fencer, Stacker (enforce Builder interrupt)
- Training: Walker Interrupt (enforce last interrupt)

[IchoTolot]

V 0.10 is out!

Following changes have been made based on namida's feedback:

- 3 16 Added another diagonal drop.
- 3 17 The walker is now a pick-up skill, RR locked and lowered.
- 3 22 Preview text had been made clearer.
- 3 23 A lot of skills are now pick-ups to greatly lower entropy.
- 3 24 Enforced the builder canceling.
- 3 25 The miner is now a pick-up skill to block a backroute.

New levels based on the plans I posted before will be coming when they are ready.     Better save replays by level name and not by position as quite a few position switches will be happening.

[WillLem]

Really enjoying this pack so far, learning a lot about NeoLemmix's capabilities. The level I've just played (Objects & Functions 7 - Pick Them Up And Push Them Down) has come as a bit of a revelation as I've been thinking it would be good to pick up skills in-level whilst designing my current pack, and now I know it's possible in NeoLemmix!

(Incidentally, since a lot of the new features (splitters, buttons, item pick-ups) will need hi-res graphics (and possibly even animations for walkers that meet them for the first time), I'm happy to do these as well when the time comes.)

I've attached my replays so far. I'm a bit stuck on the current level (O&F 8 - Split And Splat) as it's not clear exactly how to stop the splitter from working, or turn the Lemmings around...

[IchoTolot]

Thanks for the feedback.

I've attached my replays so far. I'm a bit stuck on the current level (O&F 8 - Split And Splat) as it's not clear exactly how to stop the splitter from working,

Will add to the introduction text then that splitters can't be deactivated. They will always work.

or turn the Lemmings around...

Well, you have 1 type of skill.    Try to remember the skill introduction level for that one. Also you can loose a bunch of lemmings, 100% isn't nessesary.


I plan to release 5 new levels for rank 3 hopefully this week. Will add the splitter info from above with that patch too.

[WillLem]

or turn the Lemmings around...

Well, you have 1 type of skill.    Try to remember the skill introduction level for that one. Also you can loose a bunch of lemmings, 100% isn't nessesary.

Aha - got it, thanks!

Spoiler

Wierdly though, the stackers were performing the builder skill when I was playing this level yesterday evening... I couldn't make it happen again today though.

Looking forward to the new levels!

[IchoTolot]

V 0.11 is out!

The zip file is now inteded to be extracted right inside the main NL folder! Inside the zip is a "levels" folder first and then the pack's folder as a result.

Following changes have been made based on Willem's feedback:

- 2 08 Added the pre-text info that splitters can't be deactivated.

Following levels have been added:

- 3 05 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 07 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 08 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 21 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)
- 3 27 (The following levels are therefore pushed back by 1 place)

The level count for rank 3 is now 30 as a result.

[WillLem]

Am I missing something on Gravity Lab... I can't seem to figure this one out at all.

[IchoTolot]

Am I missing something on Gravity Lab... I can't seem to figure this one out at all.

Did you catch the following things from the pre-text (if not then it might be written more clearly):

- Updrafts prevent Lemmings from splatting.
- Updrafts slow the fall of lemmings and especially floaters.
- Updrafts cause gliders to glide upwards.

- Splat-pats let non floater/glider lemmings splat if they fall on it.
- Anti-splat pads prevent lemmings from splatting.

Please, if you think some of the points above is not made clear in the text tell me!

For the level:

To show all these interactions I gave 3 lemmings, 1 glider and 1 floater. So you can have 1 normal lemming, 1 glider and 1 floater.
Now you should figure out who needs to be who, if that's right the level should nearly solve itself.

[namida]

- Splat-pats let non floater/glider lemmings splat if they fall on it.

English mistake here - Splat-pads "make" them splat. "Let" in this context has the meaning of "allow", not "cause" or "force". (Although the opposite case - "Antisplat pads let lemmings survive" - is fine. I don't know the theory behind why this one is okay, it's just a "as a native speaker I know this is fine" situation.)

[IchoTolot]

V 0.12 is out!

Little 12.7.0 update here as well:

- 2 10 has now an anti-splat pad and I fixed the error namida pointed out.


Rank 2 will be getting a neutral lemmings introduction level with the next bigger content-adding patch. 

The levels have not been cleansed yet, due to the current bug.

[IchoTolot]

V 0.13 is out!

Levels cleansed.

Level folder renamed! It contains now "_" instead of " ", due to naming conditions.  Please delete the old level folder of this pack to properly update.

[WillLem]

Hi IchoTolot,

Here are my replays for the Skills / Objects & Functions ranks. I'll start on the Basic one soon and get those over as well.

Feedback so far (hopefully this will be useful as I am very much a NeoLemmix beginner):

The pack is generally very enjoyable to play through, presenting some challenges of normal difficulty whilst teaching the skills - the pack does a very good job of this and I already feel more at home with NeoLemmix just after these two ranks.

The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I did find one or two of the levels very difficult to find the solution for, in spite of their simplicity.

Spoiler

Namely Split and Splat and Gravity Lab. With the former, since it's not possible to save all the Lemmings it kind of gives the splitter object a bad first impression. My honest advice here would be to slow the release rate to allow the stacker to finish creating a blockade before the next Lemming reaches it; it also gives players the chance to process exactly what's happening with the splitters (the pre-screen explains it perfectly fine, but it's one thing having something explained and another seeing it in action for yourself. It may be worth giving people a bit more time with this one.)

With Gravity Lab, it took me quite a few attempts before I realised that you had to let the first Lemming just fall (in order to have enough builders for the later part of the level). My instinct each time was to make them either a floater or a glider, and I'm sure this will be the case for most NeoLemmix newcomers - after all, we've spent years assigning such skills to Lemmings that are about to walk off a big drop! I did realise from the pre-screen explanation that I was meant to use the updraft to slow the floater down, and to be fair you do say that the order in which the skills are assigned is important (the penny eventually dropped!) buuut... I dunno, I guess it's just a lot to process in one go. Hmmm... maybe leave it actually, coz it is a good puzzle and I won't forget how to use updrafts after that level!

With levels that introduce a completely new concept or object (pickups, buttons, splitters, teleporters, limited-number entrances & exits), it may be an idea to make them as basic as possible - like, first few levels of Fun basic. Just showing the player what the item does, but not in the context of a puzzle just yet. Or, present the item first in a simple set-up level, and then have a puzzle level straight afterwards (this would obviously increase the number of levels...). Just an idea, and one I'm sure you have already considered. If you were to leave it as is, it's totally fine and perfectly enjoyable for any decent Lemmings player. But if the idea is to welcome in complete beginners, then presenting the new stuff in the same manner as the skills themselves may be worthwhile...

Levels I particularly enjoyed were: O&F11 Stop, Rewind and Go, 13 Getting Into Sorting and 15 Night of the Living Lems. These were all my kinda puzzles They do a great job of keeping things simple but challenging whilst also easing the player into new concepts such as limited-number entrances & exits, multitasking in pause mode and... Zombie Lemmings!

Enjoy the replays, I'll get the Basic ones over to you at some point soon-ish.

Best regards,

-WillLem

[IchoTolot]

Thanks for the replays, I see no backroutes here.

Comments:

The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I have no influence on that one. Which hotkey layout did you choose with the installation? These layouts should cover the hotkeys mentioned here otherwise point these missing ones out to namida, together with the layout you chose.
You can also assign them manually in the hotkey menu.

With the former, since it's not possible to save all the Lemmings it kind of gives the splitter object a bad first impression.

It is possible to save everyone, indeed my replay does so, but a point of the levels is to show the player that loosing lemmings is indeed alright. In this level you can loose a third of the crowd and the player should feel empowered to do so. The save requirement is not 100% for a reason, new players should loose lemmings here.
I can lower the save requirement if you advice, but losses should be expected. Players must learn and get used to let lemmings go.

With levels that introduce a completely new concept or object (pickups, buttons, splitters, teleporters, limited-number entrances & exits), it may be an idea to make them as basic as possible - like, first few levels of Fun basic. Just showing the player what the item does, but not in the context of a puzzle just yet. Or, present the item first in a simple set-up level, and then have a puzzle level straight afterwards (this would obviously increase the number of levels...). Just an idea, and one I'm sure you have already considered. If you were to leave it as is, it's totally fine and perfectly enjoyable for any decent Lemmings player. But if the idea is to welcome in complete beginners, then presenting the new stuff in the same manner as the skills themselves may be worthwhile...

Well, these should be the very basic cases which still cover every aspect mentioned.
For the gravity level for example here is my creation thinking process: I covered all 3 instances of updraft interactions: Normal, floater, glider. The only puzzle should be in which order the 2 permanent skills must be assigned to the 3 lemmings, this is also hinted at inside the pre-text. The 2 builders 100% have to cover the water pit and the splatpad there is no alternative, as otherwise the level is always impossible and not all lemings can go towards the exit. The 1 fencer has to be for the last pillar.

[WillLem]

The O&F 11 & 12 pre-screens specify "(None)" as the hotkey for the various tasks; I'm sure this is something you're aware of and will get around to changing, but just a heads-up anyway.

I have no influence on that one. Which hotkey layout did you choose with the installation? These layouts should cover the hotkeys mentioned here otherwise point these missing ones out to namida, together with the layout you chose.
You can also assign them manually in the hotkey menu.

Ah - is this set to automatically assign whichever key the user has specified as the hotkey to the text? In that case, this makes sense as I've assigned time-skipping duties to mouse clicks (L-forward 1 frame/R-backward 1 frame) rather than keys. Would this explain the issue?