List of unconverted packs?

[namida]

I'm wondering - do we have a list of old-formats packs that haven't been converted to new-formats yet? (Either a full list, or just a "possible to convert" list, is fine.)

[Flopsy]

I don't think we do as such, we could perhaps create one though.

A good source is the Lemmings and Lix Fangame topic in the NeoLemmix levels forum, this has a lot of older packs although it hasn't been updated in a while, some of the newer packs would be easier to find in the NeoLemmix levels forums anyway.

[Nessy]

I agree that the Lemmings and Lix Fangame is a good place to at least start but as mentioned it hasn't been updated in a long while. I'm going to try to slowly start updating it soon and hopefully try to make some kind of list for what needs to be updated as well. In the meantime I think you can also check the Levels for v10 or older as another good starting place.

[namida]

In the meantime I think you can also check the Levels for v10 or older as another good starting place.

It's a starting point, but needs to be kept in mind - some packs, especially those that have been converted by someone other than the original author, have topics in both the "V10 and older" board and the current-version board.

[Strato Incendus]

What I've noticed is an increasing split between Old and New Formats in terms of difficulty:

A lot of the easier packs, like SubLems, CasuaLemmings, Lemmings Squared, Yung Gotenks's packs etc. are getting left behind because they're not yet converted. (Of course, this is also true for my first two packs, Paralems and Pit Lems, on which I haven't decided yet whether I consider them worth converting in the first place - Lemmicks won't work in New Formats anyway).

Meanwhile, the packs that have been converted to New Formats tend to be on the harder side - Nepster Lems, SEB Lems, Lemmings Reunion, Pimolems, Deceit Lems etc.

And the new content that has come out for New Formats isn't exactly easy either - Lemmings Plus VI, Lemmings Plus Alpha, Integral Lemmings, and of course Lemmings United.

My worry is that a self-selection process might set in, resulting in all the easier levels being restricted to Old Formats, while New Formats becomes a "die-hard lemmings-fan exclusive".

My reasoning is as follows:

• Converting a pack takes a lot of work, so the more "casual" content creators (no offence, guys! ) are likely to postpone the conversion of their - usually easier - packs.
• Meanwhile, the ones who do put in the time and effort to convert their packs also tend to be the most adept players, so most of the stuff that gets converted or created for New Formats is ridiculously hard.
• Most new players and forum members however are only going to know about New Formats, because of course, that's what the main threads and the website point new visitors to, and if the majority of content for this engine is that tough to beat, they are bound to become discouraged quickly.

I guess I'm one of the few in between, because I'm definitely a zealous content creator, considering the quantity of packs I've put out in less than two years of membership, but I'm most certainly not a hardcore player - meaning, I get stuck on most packs I play, and therefore, my own levels tend to be on the easier side in comparison to what Nepster, IchoTolot, and Nessy can design.

And the only reason why I personally haven't converted all my other packs aside from Lemmings World Tour yet is precisely because I'm not casual about the levels they contain (because some of the best levels of Paralems and Pit Lems would get destroyed in the process).

And then, there's Arty, who's a great Lemmings (let's) player, but of course, that also means his YouTube channel takes up a considerable portion of his time.

So, just to be clear: I'm not shocked that e.g. SubLems hasn't been converted yet!

I just think that New Formats would profit greatly from having some of these slightly easier packs as well, lest it might turn into a somewhat "elitist" platform.

[IchoTolot]

Getting people to convert is a hassle.

I know you had/have quite a bit of trouble with it, but for the majority of the non-converted packs you listed it would be way less of a hassle as they mostly use the core tilesets and not many are based on those uncomplete conversions you battle with.

I can quote myself again: Puting something out is easy, but maintaining it is hard. Most people just want to throw something out and that's it. You can't force them to maintain and convert either. So what to do? You can do it yourself, but then the burden of maintenance passes onto you most likely. That's the major reason I am not active with helping getting more conversions out, the work would be mine in the end. The one who steps up gets all of the work. Also a helper from outside would need the intended solution replays and I doubt those exist on the creator side.

I can only advertise to care and maintain stuff properly. With solution replays and everything.
My time is sadly limited and I am currently managing contests, playing/testing packs when new stuff comes up, managing the NL community pack, recording solution videos and when I find the time: Read a bit of NL souce code. Of course not all of my free time is dedicated to Lemmings as then I would get fed up pretty fast here.

One thing that comes to my mind:
As namida seems to be in the dev team devision again and Nepster isn't alone anymore, you can argue that I should go full forum maintenance mode with contests, playing/testing packs, answering questions and maybe some extra pack maintenance help on top. That could help out on the pack conversion front, but you must ask what's better here: More dev team capacity or a better maintenance service. I would like to hear some opinions about this.

I am also for more casual packs and can see myself aiming for a little easier pack in the future. Still we do have some easier converted stuff like Lemmings Plus 1, GeoffLems and MazuLems. But you are right that we can use some more.

[namida]

Re: dev stuff, it kind of feels that I've been moving too fast for Nepster there, so I've taken a step back at the moment and will give him time to catch up, decide his thoughts on some of the features I've written code for, etc. Thus at the moment, my focus on L3DEdit. But I'm definitely here and able to get involved again as needed, and will likely still contribute bugfixes / minor UI features / etc from time to time in the meantime.

[mobius]

for the record: I have no interest at the present moment to convert my pack(s) (Mobilems 1&2) to the new format.

I hereby allow anyone who wishes/able to update this pack themselves, you have my permission. You may even edit the levels/add stuff if you want (though if you do that I demand you put your name on it also )

Almost forgot: Actually if anyone really does decide to do this; please contact me first because I actually started converting but never finished.

[Nessy]

I already talked with mobius privately and I'm going to officially try to convert MobiLems 2 into the new format

I really do want to see some more old format packs into new format. Therefore, I'm wondering if anyone else wants me to take a crack at updating their old format packs? I do want to help out and share the workload of these things instead of it having to fall to the same people.

[Dullstar]

Does the conversion tool work with individual levels? I tried converting one with the tool and got this error:

"An error occured while extracting the system.dat:
ID klopt niet"

Whatever language that's in, I can't read it.

All levels I tried use sets that are currently included with a fresh download of the latest version on the site, so I didn't bother trying to convert the graphics first. Maybe I'm missing translation tables? I've seen those mentioned around but I can't actually find the instructions on how to use the tool.

[IchoTolot]

Does the conversion tool work with individual levels

Yes and no tools required here. Just load in the levels in the new editor (while loading search for .lvl files), check if everything is alright and solvable and then save the level under the new format.

I tried converting one with the tool and got this error:

I don't know which tool you were using, but if it was the Pack converter, than an error is expected trying to convert single levels. It only converts nxp packs.

[Strato Incendus]

"An error occured while extracting the system.dat:
ID klopt niet"

I know this error; sounds like Dutch to me .

As IchoTolot mentioned, NXPConvert is for packs only, since they end on .nxp in Old Formats. Single levels can simply be opened in the New Formats level editor. Open the editor, click on "open" (or STRG + O). Then, at first, the explorer will only display New Formats levels. Change the file format in the dropdown menu in the bottom right corner of the window to "Old Format levels" or "All Files". Then you can simply click on any Old Formats level you have and open it.

A couple of things that can happen:
- any missing pieces will simply be omitted, including radiation and slowfreeze objects
- moving background objects as well as rotated hatches and exits are supported by the New-Formats NeoLemmix player, but not by the editor, meaning when you open a level including these features in the editor, they won't be displayed accurately, but when you convert a pack containing such levels and play that pack in the player, these things will continue to work
- levels larger than 2000 pixels (I believe that's the cutoff) are once again supported by the player, but not by the editor. This means the editor will cut them off, but a level of this size created in Old Formats and converted in the context of an entire pack will work in the New Formats player

The last point was relevant for the final level in my pack Lemmings World Tour, which is why I had to get the entire pack converted with the pack conversion tool first, in order to be able to convert this oversized level, before I could re-edit the single converted levels in the New Formats editor. The pack conversion tool will stop as soon as it encounters a single missing tileset in a pack.

[Nessy]

So a fellow forum member who wishes to stay anonymous made an entire list of unconverted packs


Cannot update without significant changes:

Copycat Lemmings by Essman (converted by namida)
Holiday GigaLems 2015 by GigaLem
Resident GigaLems 0 by GigaLem
Solved All Levels with a unified graphic set by Minim and Gronkling (uses a graphic set not in the new-formats)
Mobilems II by mobius (currently being converted by mobius and Nessy)
Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0 compiled by mobius
NeoLemmix Introduction Pack by namida
Lemmings Squared by nin10doadict (IIRC, some levels use radiation/slowfreeze)
Casualemmings by nin10doadict
Paralems by Strato Incendus
Pit Lems by Strato Incendus
Lemmicks by Strato Incendus
Lemmings World Tour by Strato Incendus


Requires minor-to-no changes, author is still active:

Lemmings Redux compiled by bsmith, namida, and Proxima
Reverse Lemmings by Colorful Arty
SubLems by Colorful Arty
ArtLems Lost Art Pieces by Colorful Arty
Holiday Lemmings '16 by various authors compiled by Crane
GigaLems by GigaLem
Holiday GigaLems 2016 "The Harsh Winter" by GigaLem
All Updates of Lemmix Packs to NeoLemmix converted by Nepster and Wafflem
Raylems by Raymanni
Snack Pack by SQron188
Yung's First Level Pack by Yung Gotenks


Requires minor-to-no changes, author is no longer active:

Be Smart! by Alberto Fernandes
Lemmings Stampede by bulletride
bsmith's first level back by bsmith
A Master Degree in Lemmings by Duudu
An Unnamed Level Pack by Duudu
A hard level by Duudu
JWPack by JW


Does not want to update at the author's request:

MegSEBytes by Flopsy and Wafflem (all the levels are now part of Flopsy's SEB Lems)
Lemmingbytes by Wafflem (also wishes that nobody converts this pack for him)

[namida]

NeoLemmix Introduction Pack by namida

This should not require significant changes outside of removing the levels relating to no-longer-supported features - which in turn have no reason to be in the pack anymore. I did actually start working on an entirely new introduction pack from scratch, that was aimed at those who are completely new to Lemmings (while still being useful to those who are only new to NeoLemmix) but I got bored of working on it after a while. I should upload the levels from it at some point.

[Strato Incendus]

That is true, all my packs feature at least some instances of radiation or slowfreeze, so those levels are bound to change significantly if they are ever updated.

I would like to re-inform everyone though that Lemmings World Tour is still in the process of being converted. The levels themselves have all been converted, to be precise, all the graphic-set conversions are complete at last; I've put it on a halt though until the extended skill panel of up to 10 different skill types has been implemented, though, because some levels containing radation or slowfreeze already featured a full skill panel. Consequently, I need at least a ninth slot to add in the necessary amount of stoners or bombers.

On some levels, this wasn't necessary because, due to instant bombers and stoners, the blockers provided in the original version of the level to stop the radiating / slowfreezing lemming at the right destination could simply be replaced with bombers or stoners, respectively. On levels with free-moving radiating or slowfreezing lemmings however - where the radiation or slowfreeze was placed in the right position so that lemmings would explode / stone in the correct spots without any execution madness - the skill represented by the radiation or slowfreeze is not present on the skill panel. Thus, if that skill panel happens to be full already, the level is unsolvable as of now.

Lastly, there are three levels in which zombies need to walk into radiation and/or slowfreeze, and those cannot be replicated even with additional skill slots and pickup skills. I still have no idea how to go about adapting those.