[NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]

[kaywhyn]

I agree that backroutes should be eliminated. I just didn't expect many to come from me, let alone my ability to even be able to backroute levels. Let's see how many Genocide levels I can backroute, then. If I can. I'll be surprised if many of them show up in the rank after I solve and send the replays to you. In any case, I'm glad you're finding the replays very helpful.

I also wonder if my written feedback is helpful, as I sometimes feel like it isn't, but that's probably just me doubting myself as usual. You probably noticed, for example, that I say that nearly every level is "excellent, great," or something along that line. IIRC there's only been like 2 levels in the pack so far, both in Tension, interestingly enough, that I said I wasn't a fan of. Thus, I don't rage as easily as others at playing and solving levels. Also goes to show you how very much I love Lemmings in general, given my very long, extensive history with the game.

[ericderkovits]

One thing I noticed about the pack, I don't see any use of the new skill(jumpers). I don't know if you don't want to use them since this pack has been around. Maybe if backroutes need to be fixed, maybe jumpers could help out- just saying.

[kaywhyn]

Jumpers and shimmiers weren't in NL at the time United was created and released, which is why both are completely absent from the pack. Even though they're both available now, this pack wasn't designed with those skills in mind, so Icho won't be using them for future patch versions of the pack. It's best he doesn't anyway, as then he'll have to make additional Pacifism levels introducing those skills, and 41 levels is already a lot for an individual rank anyway. Not only that, it's going to be way too much work for him to go back through each level and see where the new skills can be used. The new skills are best used for packs created after their introduction to NL, not for those packs that predate their release.

[ericderkovits]

Yeah , kaywhyn. That's why I mentioned it's because the pack has been around awhile before those 2 skills. I've been downloading all the united replays as they get updated for new versions. so far I'm still missing neutrality 40 To the control room.
also with the new 11.1 version your
Tension 39 double vortex is now broken.
and with
War 3,11,24, 30,32,38 they don't work.
Ichotolot also mentioned he didn't like your waiting in War 35 but he tolorated it. I replayed it it does wait awhile for your lemmings to get into position to get that one lemming to stack from near bottom of level with lemmings going back and forth.

all other ranks replays still show green with the 11.1 update.
This pack is just way too difficult for me to play. I tried to do neutrality 40 but I cant figure out. I'm lousy at puzzle solving difficult levels.

[kaywhyn]

Weird. The replay for Tension 39 should still work, as the only thing that changed is the save requirement. A few versions ago, I managed to save 1 extra on Tension 39. With the newer version, Icho changed the save requirement so that it is now exactly the amount I saved, so this should not had caused the replay to break. Yes, you will see a yellow check mark for Tension 39, but it doesn't always mean the old replay solution will break. In that case, you simply just need to run a mass replay check and it should had turned to a green checkmark no problem. And yes, several War replays broke because Icho made changes to those levels that cause my solutions to not work anymore, which means I now need to resolve them again. Several assignments in them should still be the same, but some of them will need to be changed so that it's a working solution.

Regarding Neutrality 40, you'll going to have to wait a while for that one, when I send replays for all levels, including Genocide and the Bonus ranks. It's definitely a tough one, and I remember that one taking me a while to solve. The difficulty is in large part due to how the map is really big and also so many things are happening at once that it's not obvious what/where the skills need to be used. In Icho's explanation of why it's a difficult level, the level has extremely high entropy: so many things happening and skill placements are somewhat non-obvious in that they can't automatically be placed right away.

Ah, thanks for being honest about at least attempting some of the United levels. They're quite satisfying when you finally figure the solutions out on your own. And don't worry, it's not like I myself never ever get stumped. Sometimes, it takes me hours or even days/weeks depending on the level, but if I keep at it, eventually I'll get it.

[ericderkovits]

Thanks kaywhyn, I did the replay check and it found no errors. I wonder why tension 39 went to orange. when it did that I replayed the level and it didnt quite work. one of the lemmings drowned near those two luggage suitcases so it couldnt finish the level. then I did the replay check and it now works. so now all tension is good. I don't know what the replay check did but it made the level now work. Also I don't know how you have the patient to do a level that hard. that level took aprox 22min and your right save requirement is exact(22 lemmings).

also I'm fond of anybody in Deutschland (germany). I heard his voice on his commentary for the pasifism rank. I love his accent.
I took german in school and still love learning the language. It's because my dads parents were born in austria. so I had a passion to learn the language. also in 2011 I went to 4 countries in europe (germany-went to Oktoberfest-Viel Spass-a lot of fun).

anyways, Kaywhyn I love your passion for lemmings. It's also my favorite game. I grew up with it. I just wish I had the puzzle solving ability you do. Also the patient, but I just don't. But I love watching the replays. I have his reunion ones finished watching.
although your right this pack is better although harder.

Und Icholotot. In welcher Stadt in Deutschland lebst du? Ich denke die deutsche Sprache is toll(grossartig). Ich lerne Deutsch jeden Tag. Ich schaue Youtube Videos sehr oft an. Hast du die USA besucht? Und ich weiss auch Simon(Lix) lebt in Deutshland

also I notice you have Titles in this pack with german references (ie climbing the top of the Zugspitze und Kraft und Licht)

also I remember a level in reunion(very odd level) Maschen something fence(zaun). that one is kinda hard to get through all that masching of the fence you have there. anyways enough rambling.

[kaywhyn]

An orange checkmark will always appear on levels whenever there's a change to the level, whether it's a save requirement, terrain changes, etc. As was mentioned previously, an orange checkmark doesn't always automatically mean that previous replay solutions will break. Instead, it means that previous replays could possibly break. All it means is that the level changed in some way that could possibly break the replay. Tension 39 is a case where I already solved it correctly by saving an extra lemming before the the save requirement was upped, and this was the only change made to the level, and so therefore the replay doesn't break. The only thing I can think of is that you might had possibly interrupted the replay, but I don't know for sure.

A large part of my great puzzle solving abilities is through the many puzzle games I grew up with. For example, I grew up with the Incredible Machine series, and while I couldn't solve all the levels as a kid, in my later years of life I came back and was able to complete all of the puzzles. Most importantly, I have played so many custom lemmings packs and that has helped me increase my solving ability tremendously. I first started off on Dos packs on Custlemm before I eventually found some packs around on Youtube and here on the forums. I pretty much started with the harder packs, mostly because I was certain that I be able to handle them. Indeed, my completing Pimolems and Reunion without ever consulting any playthroughs or solutions or hints shows that, although I still had a lot of struggles with both. I think what this has resulted in is help me develop a puzzle mindset in life. It has trained me to look at everything in life as a kind of puzzle to solve. It's also helped by how I've always been a math person.

Wow, you too, huh? I too love hearing Icho's voice on his commentary videos. I think part of what makes them so great is the way he does them and still managing to be quite entertaining and therefore fun to watch. I also got to say not bad for someone whose native language isn't English! Yes, I do see his grammatical mistakes here on the forums, but I still can understand him for the most part. On the other hand, I tend to fumble my words a lot on screen despite English being my native tongue! Believe me, I've done this at times with my IG stories, and no matter how much I rehearse my speeches they always end up not being the way I want them. I also suck majorly when it comes to improv. I can't think of things to say on my feet very well and quickly.

[ericderkovits]

anyways yeah those other 6 levels of war he did change so they dont work. I did a mass replay check on war and yeah
3 failed 3,24,38
and
3 undetermined 11,30,32

all 6 of these he mentions he changed so that's why they don't work. all the rest so far of war works. unless of course he updates again to change any in war or any other rank.

but Thanks about telling me about the mass replay check it's awesome.
in fact 1 level in world tour failed that icholotot had a replay for professional 28 (undetermined) so level failed but I managed to solve that one from where it failed so now I have a good professional 28.

[kaywhyn]

You're welcome. Glad to hear that everything is working fine again.

[ericderkovits]

also I especially like watching packs made by ichotolot. I have pimolems and dovelems. although those levels are not made by him, they were converted by him. I downloaded replays for both packs. pimolems replays are all good.
but 3 in dovelems someones replays were broken according to mass replay check. maso 16(which i solved so have good replay),
maso 18(tried to solve-was changed after the latest replays-too hard now), and bonus 1(tried to solve-too tricky for me).
Even though the 3 levels are small in size, their trickier than I think the original authors versions.

Ichotolot really likes to make or have levels made(even someone elses) hard. he is the master of hard levels. Of course for you these 2 packs are probably too easy. I'm just trying to gather replays for his packs. especially since he is German(wunderbar).

[kaywhyn]

That's a possibility, but I beat the packs first on Lemmini, which is a different engine from NL. It's very likely with the levels patched up that they're much harder, but that remains to be seen, as I haven't yet tackled them on NL. Even then, I can't imagine them being that much harder than the Lemmini versions. However, let's move discussions of Dovelems and Pimolems to the relevant threads, as we're now moving the discussion away from the United pack.

[IchoTolot]

Thanks for all the comments! I appreciate them!

Und Icholotot. In welcher Stadt in Deutschland lebst du? Ich denke die deutsche Sprache is toll(grossartig). Ich lerne Deutsch jeden Tag. Ich schaue Youtube Videos sehr oft an. Hast du die USA besucht? Und ich weiss auch Simon(Lix) lebt in Deutshland

Back in the days Simon and I found out that we come from the same town in central germany (Göttingen).  So we had many meetups over the years. He moved lately to a nearby town that's about 30min away by car.
I have not yet visited the USA, but the time for traveling will come eventually. First, I want to finally finish up my master degree.

Weiterhin viel Erfolg beim Lernen der deutschen Sprache!

also I especially like watching packs made by ichotolot. I have pimolems and dovelems. although those levels are not made by him, they were converted by him. I downloaded replays for both packs. pimolems replays are all good.
but 3 in dovelems someones replays were broken according to mass replay check. maso 16(which i solved so have good replay),
maso 18(tried to solve-was changed after the latest replays-too hard now), and bonus 1(tried to solve-too tricky for me).
Even though the 3 levels are small in size, their trickier than I think the original authors versions.

Ichotolot really likes to make or have levels made(even someone elses) hard. he is the master of hard levels. Of course for you these 2 packs are probably too easy. I'm just trying to gather replays for his packs. especially since he is German(wunderbar).

I can assure you that I only try to enforce the originally intended solutions by the authors in the cases of PimoLems and DoveLems. They were meant to be hard, but did not fully enforce it yet.

As you are mostly gathering replays I think I should pm you a nice zip file.

in fact 1 level in world tour failed that icholotot had a replay for professional 28 (undetermined) so level failed but I managed to solve that one from where it failed so now I have a good professional 28.

You remind me that I need to go back to solving that pack. But first there are other things to do.

[ericderkovits]

RE: Icholotot:
thanks for the pm replays of united. I think you're awesome. you do love making difficult levels. I made a 2nd folder for these ones since they're alphabatized and the ones I gathered were just by rank. but for Neutrality 40 I copied that replay also into the original rank one and renamed it Neutrality 40. I'm just so bad at difficult levels or even medium ones but I do love watching them. And I just get so frustrated at trying to solve them. Kaywhyn loves United too. Honestly I don't have the puzzle solving ability that he does or the patient, escpecially many levels can be like 15+min in length. I Think that fact alone can make the level difficult. I remember a couple from reunion that were broken but managed to fix the replays by watching your youtube videos on those few so got all the replays now. I love the music you have for your reunion and united packs. that circus one  I love. Also I love your german accent. My dads parents(my grandparents on dads side were born in austria-I even have my grandfathers death certificate stating it). So i have a fondness with the german language. also english and german are so closely connected, making german that much easier of a language to learn. Here in California where I live I hear outside of english alot of spanish which I have no interest in. Many people think I'm german by my last name(Derkovits) but austrian(german speaking country though). I visited salzburg(I love that town-even went on the Sound of Music Tour). My wish next is to visit germany for xmas as I want to see the german xmas markets(would have gone this year but not for the corona virus). I love listening to the german xmas ones on youtube(stille Nacht and many more).

Anyways too much rambling. But thanks for the replays. Now I can see all the intended solutions vs other players versions which makes it so you have to update.

NOTE: Kaywhn no need for Neutrality 40 anymore as I got it now from Icholotot(he is awesome). but I will continue to gather replays from you as they change in future updates.

[ericderkovits]

oh one last thing I also downloaded your(icholotot's) lix multiplayer levels. When I have time will try to finish these as well.

[kaywhyn]

Ok, sounds good. It might take a while before you get more replays from me, depending on how badly the Genocide levels get me stuck. I like seeing solutions from different people of the same level, too. Unless there's only 1 solution to the level, it's unlikely people will solve the level in the exact same way. It's also fun to compare my solutions to other people's.

Here in California where I live

Cheers, eric! I knew you were from the west coast USA because you mentioned the time being the same as where I live, but it's awesome to know you're from California just like me.