[NeoLemmix] Lemmings United [Difficulty: Hard-Extreme]

[kaywhyn]

And, 2 41 finally solved!

Spoiler

2 41 - Wow, what an excellent rank finisher level that managed to stump me for 4 months! I nearly got teary-eyed upon finally solving this monster of a level on my very own when I was nearly tempted to read the hint you gave to Armani or view his replay. So it turns out that the green wall at the beginning wasn't just decoration and it's definitely needed for the solution. I can't believe this never ever occurred to me. No wonder I was stumped for so long.

I finally came back and seriously attempted this level today and after about an hour of thinking through this and trying various stuff, I managed to solve it. It turns out that I needed to really think outside the box, and your subtle hint that my solution replay I sent you was "still so far" was somewhat helpful but ultimately helped me find the solution on my own. The problem was that I kept thinking that a stacker needs to be used to get the lemmings out of the holding pit on top. It never occurred to me that I could contain the lemmings at the top at the bottom with the stacker. Once I tried that, I nearly had an aha moment and thought that it could potentially be used to get to the eventual solution, as I now have all those walkers and platformers that I otherwise kept using up in my old replay that turned out to not be a working solution at all. However, the next big problem I ran into was getting the top entrance in the holding pit and the lemmings at the bottom out. I kept thinking it was impossible because since platformers don't gain height they're essentially trapped. So, it was back to using a stacker to get them out for about another 10-15 minutes, when I eventually came back and thought about what I did have left over after mining the bottom crowd out with the new approach: a basher, a walker, and two platformers. It then occurred to me that I could indeed gain some height from these leftover skills by bashing the green wall to the left of the top entrances and then cancelling midstroke. I tried this with a quick level reset and saw that they can get out with two platformers, so then one more reset and I quickly proceeded with the rest of the solution first and then got very excited when I got to the bashing part and saw that indeed it works with the skills I had leftover. Then the rest is history.  Yay me!  

First two ranks all solved. Onward to the Tension levels!

[IchoTolot]

100% intended solution!

Great job!

[kaywhyn]

Hello,

Making great progress on the Tension levels. A lot of great levels in there. However, I appear to have hit a roadblock with 3 17, either because I might be missing something obvious or I'm finding it impossible with the given skillset. The level gives 3 climbers, 2 stackers, 2 stoners, 1 bomber, 1 platformer, 1 basher, and 2 miners. Is this correct?  No hints yet, I just want to know if the level is solvable with the given skillset.

Spoiler

Tension 1 - Great level to begin the rank that requires some thinking to get up and then out in each section with the given skills.

Tension 2 - Pretty easy, but it's just the second level of the rank.

Tension 3 - Looks daunting with all the pick up skills but is actually easy.

Tension 5 - First level in the rank where I was stuck thinking for a while, especially with how to release the crowd at the end.

Tension 7 - This took me a while to figure out as well, maybe close to an hour. Is there a way to make the timing a little easier at the end?

Tension 8 - Easiest level by far.

Tension 9 - Looks extremely daunting at first glance but in actuality is quite easy. I love the symmetry. My only suggestion would be to reduce the lemming count, especially given how there's a long time waiting for all lemmings to get through the teleporters. I'm not sure if it was the number of lemmings or the graphic set itself, but even with fast forward on it was quite sluggish.

Tension 10 - Another real stumper but an excellent level that definitely required thinking outside the box. Is the throwback in the title referring to the Sports Bar level from Reunion?

Tension 11 - Excellent level with a well-hidden solution

Tension 12 - Excellent level that happened to stump me but only because my initial thought was to build twice from the steel block. Then I tried bashing through the spike on the floor and allowed the lead lemming to walk to the left side and, to my surprise, that they can indeed gain height from the structure.

Tension 13 - Excellent level and puzzle, especially with how to bash the crowd out at the end.

Tension 14 - Another great level with an excellent puzzle. I initially bombed my way down but this turned out to be a red herring since I would always be a lemming short due to the traps in front of the exit.

Tension 15 - It took a while to work this out, but this one was very satisfying to solve. An excellent puzzle with a lot of false paths that look like they could work but don't. Love the title too!

[IchoTolot]

V 10.4 is out!

Backroute fixes based on kaywhyn's replays:

- 3 02 (added some steel)
- 3 09 (added some terrain)

Comments on kaywhyn solutions:

Spoiler

Tension 7: There are quite a few possible variations on how to achieve the end situation. Yours is more precise in timing. It's very very difficult to block one variation while still allowing the others.

Tension 8: That's surprising. Until more it was considered more among the harder ones.

Tension 9: That's why you catched a backroute.   The teleporters are not there to teleport all 100+ lemmings.

Tension 10: Exactly.

I can assure you that 3 17 is 100% possible. I just checked the replay again.

2 people found it quite hard until now, while 1 person said it was pretty easy.

[kaywhyn]

Resolved 3 2.

Spoiler

Tension 2 - Now the level is a more decent challenge, but still an excellent level.

Comments:

Spoiler

Tension 8 - Except for containing the crowd at the start with a digger while letting two worker lemmings get past and bashing at the exact moment the pit is no longer scalable so that it gets stopped by the OWW but still leaving a step for the crowd to get out later, there's nothing difficult about this level. After that, just a miner to separate the workers and the rest of the level kind of plays itself out where due to the level itself the timing is just perfect for both lemmings to go through the trap at the same time so only one gets killed. Goes to show you that opinions will always differ. In the same way I find some levels easy but others found hard, it's also true for vice versa, where some levels I surprisingly struggled with but others found easy.

Tension 9 - Sorry, I can still use the exact same replay. I do see the change that was added, but that has not prevented me from doing the exact same thing.

I can assure you that 3 17 is 100% possible. I just checked the replay again.

2 people found it quite hard until now, while 1 person said it was pretty easy.

Thanks for confirming. In that case, I haven't found the solution yet then. I'll keep trying.

[IchoTolot]

V 10.5 is out!

Backroute fixes based on kaywhyn's replays:

- 3 09 (reverted the last fix, added some steel and moved 2 teleporters)

Now it should be fixed.

3 02 is intended now!

[kaywhyn]

Resolved 3 9. This seems intended now. Still slow even when I had fast forward on while doing the execution (seems like it's either a graphic set limitation or maybe just the fact the level is huge), but at least the solving time is cut drastically.

[IchoTolot]

V 10.6 is out!

Backroute fixes based on kaywhyn's replays:

- 3 09 (added some steel)

I was so focussed on the teleporter that I completely missed another thing that's wrong and allowed you to waste skills elsewhere. This should fix it though.

If you have the high quality minimap activated you could deactivate it to improve performance. But yes, the level's size is a big reson for it.

[kaywhyn]

Resolved 3 9 again. This should be it.

If you have the high quality minimap activated you could deactivate it to improve performance.

Turning it off did the trick! I'll just live with it on for the level since I prefer the high quality minimap (looks much better imo). Besides, I could simply use the 10-second skip in place of fast forward for the most part.

[IchoTolot]

Intended!

[IchoTolot]

V 10.7 is out!

Warning! This version is reuired if you play on NeoLemmix version 12.9.0 or higher! Otherwise you will encounter impossible levels!

Fixed levels through small terrain and object changes:

- 1 31
- 4 05
- 4 06
- 4 39
- 5 08
- 5 41
- 6 15

[kaywhyn]

Finally back to play this pack some more, especially since I've finally managed to get myself unstuck on Tension 17 after a little over a month. I was going to wait until I had finished the rank to send replays, but I'll send them now since I'm now currently stumped on Tension 34 - Forgotten Refinery. I think I know the idea of what needs to be done in the level, but I'll try again later on today since it's already pretty late here. A lot of really nice levels in this bunch! However, I do believe there are some backroutes. In particular, Tension 25 - Step Up! (or Don't) and Tension 27 - Step it Down

Spoiler

I didn't even have to collect the miner pick up at all in Tension 25, which I'm sure you intend, while in Tension 27 I have some climbers and swimmers left over. I'm surprised my solution works with where I assigned the digger to free the crowd, but it's a very precise assignment.

Some remarks:

Spoiler

Tension 17 - And Another Head Hangs Ok, this level managed to stump me for a little over a month, but it turns out that it's not a very hard level at all, just a level with a really well-hidden solution due to the steel. For some reason, I thought a second miner wouldn't work after a somewhat precise first miner assignment and kept thinking that I need to bomb before using a second miner to get them the crowd out. This turns out to be impossible, as it's not possible to turn two climbers back to accomplish this. Also, I kept bombing the first miner to make a hole for another lemming to mine the crowd, but this isn't feasible either, as there's no way to send one of the remaining two climbers back to do so. Then finally in one attempt where I was trying things I got a climber to turn around to try a second miner assignment. Turns out that the second miner has extreme precision assignment and that it is indeed possible to assign a second miner in the first miner tunnel despite the first one being stopped due to the steel but still made possible because of how the first miner was able to remove some terrain on the other side of the steel. Armed with this idea, the solution for the level was there, and I already knew how to turn a climber around by getting one of them stuck by two stacks and freeing the stuck climber with a basher requires good timing and precision. The rest was smooth sailing from there.

Tension 18 - Spacestation GE 00 Nice level! I really loved the idea of delaying the lemmings here! It still took several tries to try some ideas and get the timing right, but this level took me nowhere near as long as the previous one, probably about 20-25 mins max.

Tension 19 - Vertigo Another nice level! It didn't take me too long to see that a builder must be used to get a part of it past a thin wall for the floater to bridge the gaps. The first basher placement is really precise though, and I guess the digger and miner as well.

Tension 20 - Totally Stoned This was a really good level that managed to stump me for a while with the false water gaps path. In particular, the stoner's use in the level isn't obvious at all, but once I figured out that it can serve the double purpose of breaking the fall of the second climber both above and below after digging through it, the rest of the level was easy. I did try the wrong idea of first stoning, then digging, then building. The climber will survive the fall for a while, though, where the problem is there's no path for the crowd this way.

Tension 21 - Dragon Slayer Great level here! The stacker is very precise, as there's only one location that works to break the crowd's fall AND so the climber doesn't get stuck.

Tension 22 - Mindshell Indeed, this managed to stump me good until I saw that the basher needs to be canceled midstroke and build to plug up the tunnel so that the crowd is trapped, so this is pretty much a variation of the builder trick in Vertigo. Like that level, the basher placement is a bit precise to accomplish this, and the timing is also a bit tricky, as there's another lemming not too far away from the interrupted basher.

Tension 23 - Dare to Share Really easy level compared to the others around this, as it's really obvious where the skills need to go.

Tension 24 - Construct Additional Pylons Nice Starcraft reference! The protoss is also my favorite race to play. At first glance, this level seems to be very open-ended with the abundance of platformers and builders, but don't be fooled, as they all need to be used very carefully, and so you can't waste any of them. Quite honestly, though, I wasn't too big of a fan of this level due to a lot of building and how it's difficult to tell whether you're wasting any platformers or builders unnecessarily.

Tension 28 - Backyard Garden What? I didn't even know it was possible for a bomber to still exit. Truth be told, I don't like this trick, as it's kind of not expected behavior of a bomber in the ohno animation. No wonder I was really stumped on this level, as it should had been very clear from the start that the bombers are red herrings. Even if you just gave one bomber, I still would had been stumped for a while, but then again the solution might be way more obvious this way, especially if one already knows it's possible for a bomber in the ohno animation that lands in front of the exit can still exit. Surprising, I know, considering that this is possibly the shortest level in the pack due to the 55 second time limit and how there aren't even that many possibilities to try. The timer's definitely justified, as then the other solution of digging with the preplaced lemming and letting him finish completely would work.

Tension 29 - Tomb of Ichot'olot Really nice puzzle! I really loved seeing the solution in action. I do have a stacker leftover, though. I'm not a fan of levels that give a lot of stackers, as it's always very difficult to know whether they need to be used to hold back lemmings or to ascend the level in short bursts. Here, it's not too bad, as it's really obvious where the stackers need to be assigned and you only need to do it once at most at each location.

Tension 30 - Just Do It Up! I wasn't a fan of this level either due to crucial bomber placements. I do have diggers leftover, but I'm guessing that it's fine.

Tension 31 - Locked In Really nice puzzle too!

Tension 32 - Awakening of Aggressions Yet another great level that almost uses the standard two blockers to hold back the crowd! However, here you need to send two worker lemmings ahead. Looks like we got that bomber releasing two blockers trick from Neutrality 38 here again. The miner and builder to get up the tunnel are a bit precise, though.

Tension 33 - Eyes in the Dark Third awesome puzzle in a row! The stoner miner trick is new to me here, but it didn't take too long to see that it needs to be used in this level, as the builders are obvious where they need to go.

[IchoTolot]

V 10.8 is out!

Fixed backroutes thanks to kaywhyn's replays:

- 3 25 (a basher is now a pick-up skill)
- 3 27 (added some steel)

The rest was either intended or acceptable alternative solutions.

Forgotten Refinery is definitly a roadblock, because it needs a certain trick you need to discover here. Be encouraged though that you are not the only one being blocked by it (Josh and I might remember even Armani being hold back here.).    

I myself learned that trick in a level Wafflem made back in the day where he enforced it in one of his last rank levels. Took me a couple of tries there as well.

[IchoTolot]

V 10.9 is out!

Fixed backroutes:

- 1 33 (slight terrain changes)

[The Tomato Watcher]

You all can thank my chronic over-complication for that one.