Selecting Extended graphics in Lemedit

[JM]

Does anybody know how to select the extended graphics in Lemedit rather than loading a level using extended graphics?

[Shvegait]

In LemEdit, you can't.

[JM]

Ok. I just don't know how to select extended graphics when editing a level. Geoo89 somehow managed to get Vgaspec4.

[finlay]

It's weird; on the mac there's a template included in the Levels file so that if you open it in ResEdit you can edit numbers of blockers, builders etc... it goes (iirc) Rate, Minutes, Lemmings, Goal, Climbers, ...., Diggers, XStart (screen position), Ground Type (tileset), IFFNumber (special graphics), blank (superlemming in onml) (these are all two bytes long like a "word" or something in computer talk), then there's hex code for all the separate bits of the file. I actually managed to decode bits myself by experimenting, though I never worked out how to edit metal areas. And it's exactly the same format as the .lvl files that Lemedit saves. Does that help at all? (well, I won't be entirely surprised if it doesn't. )

[JM]

It helps. Thanks finlay

I was just wondering how you do it because Geoo89 managed to select VGASPEC4 for one of his levels.

[ccexplore]

Is there a particular reason why VGASPEC4 is any better than VGASPEC0 thru VGASPEC3?

[ccexplore]

It's weird; on the mac there's a template included in the Levels file so that if you open it in ResEdit you can edit numbers of blockers, builders etc...

It's not really weird, it's just the Mac's, um, unusual file system.

The Mac system is one of very few file system I know where it splits files into multiple so-called "forks".

There's a "data fork" consisting of unstructured data, and one or more "resource forks" consisting of structured data.  ResEdit probably stands for "resource edit" and is used to edit the resource forks of Mac files.

It's because of the required structuredness of resource forks that you get the "template" for editing level data.

Presumably the Mac must have some nice programming support when you store your data as resource forks, which would explain why so many Mac files tend to store a lot of their content in resource forks.

[finlay]

I know. It must surely do. I'm still not entirely sure how they work, but I'm well aware of what they are and stuff, and how to use ResEdit.
I think there's a template there so that it was easier for the programmers to do it, because you can include a level template on the mac but you can't on the PC because it's all a series of level files. The Windows version has 500 files while the Mac one has 5.

[finlay]

Is there a particular reason why VGASPEC4 is any better than VGASPEC0 thru VGASPEC3?

It's not used in the game; presumably someone made their own?

[Proxima]

Incidentally, the ONML resource fork doesn't include a template, so when you open the levels in ResEdit you just get the raw hex data; but if you open Lemmings and then ONML in ResEdit it will work out that the Lemmings template applies to the ONML level data, and you'll be able to edit the levels in just the same way.

[finlay]

That's true, but you can also copy across the Lemmings template to the ONML resource file, as I did years ago, so I'd forgotten that I'd done that. But yeah, the format's also the same as the *.lvls on the PC/Win versions, so it's fairly easy to import LemEdit levels across, for instance, as long as you have a hex editor. I've played several of the downloadable ones already this way, and I also played one I designed myself. It's actually really striking how much better the mac graphics are; I'd never realised it before. That said, the home in the Hell tileset looks crap comparitively; it has big white eyes and no horns.

[ccexplore]

so it's fairly easy to import LemEdit levels across, for instance, as long as you have a hex editor. I've played several of the downloadable ones already this way, and I also played one I designed myself. It's actually really striking how much better the mac graphics are; I'd never realised it before.

Well yes, the Mac graphics are high-resolution.  It should be similar to the ones you get when you play the Windows version in hi-res mode.

Beware though that the level might play slightly differently when you use the Mac instead of CustLemm:

1) Precision moves might be affected due to the use of high-resolution graphics on the Mac, while CustLemm uses low-res graphics.

2) Levels with tight time limits might be affected since on the Mac time goes slower (think "Just a Minute Part II").

3) CustLemm has a slightly extended fall distance of 66 instead of the usual 63 that the official Lemming (whether DOS, Windows, Mac, Amiga, etc.) uses.  Very few levels are affected by this difference, but when it does affect the level, the difference can be significant (eg. geoopck1 #9).

4) Levels that depend on strange glitches or tricks will not necessarily work on the Mac, though I've found that many glitches do hold up on the Mac.

[finlay]

I think the Windows and Mac ones were done separately, but don't quote me on that. Somebody said the Playstation version was like high-res Windows and that's certainly different from the mac one.
Why people would want people to have to exploit glitches is beyond me though, especially when not everyone knows what they are. It does work quite well though, I think. I did notice that somebody made a level called we all mine down; I think it was one of the older packs; and that never worked at all because the lemmings would always die falling.

[ccexplore]

Why people would want people to have to exploit glitches is beyond me though, especially when not everyone knows what they are. It does work quite well though, I think. I did notice that somebody made a level called we all mine down; I think it was one of the older packs; and that never worked at all because the lemmings would always die falling.

I'm not sure I'd call the difference in falling distance, as you alluded to above, a "glitch" per se.  And in fact, the difference is so small, it's only within the past 6 months or so that we became aware of it.  It's quite possible that some people designed a CustLemm level such that part of it involves a drop that looks large but is barely survivable.  Such a drop could potentially become fatal when played using the original, slightly smaller falling distance.  Fortunately, I think the number of levels affected are pretty small, since the difference is so small in the first place.

As for other glitches, I do agree that making use of glitches that few people know about can be somewhat unfair, on the other hand, that glitch had to be discovered first by someone, and so if one person could discover it, why not everyone else?  In any case, very few levels actually make use of glitches in the first place.

[ccexplore]

I think the Windows and Mac ones were done separately, but don't quote me on that. Somebody said the Playstation version was like high-res Windows and that's certainly different from the mac one.

Well I believe you, and I'm pretty certain that if nothing else, different companies were involved in the Mac and Windows versions.  The main point was simply that those versions use higher resolution graphics than what the "originals" (Amiga, PC, Atari ST) used.  For the most part this simply results in visual differences, but once in a while you do get more substantial gameplay differences, such as Mac's infamous Mayhem 26 for example.