Lemforum backroute fixes, Lix 0.10.x

[Simon]

Concrete proposal for the rerankings of previous post:

• Feel the Pressure: Hopeless 13 -> insert as Daunting 9, before Merge Sort.
  
• This is a Stickup: Daunting 33 -> Vicious 15.
  
• Evacuate the Sinking Ship: Vicious 15 -> insert as Hopeless 7, before Crown Jewel Heist.
  

-- Simon

[Proxima]

Replay for Feel the Pressure attached. Intended/acceptable/backroute? I remember solving the Lemmix original without too much trouble (this level came from the very first forum contest), but the Lix version has a tighter save requirement and fixed spawn interval. It feels like mostly luck that the Lix emerge tightly grouped enough that only two die to the traps, so I wonder if I missed an intended trick to group them more tightly.

If my solution is acceptable, then yes, it's okay to move to early Daunting.

[Dullstar]

I haven't checked it in the latest version, but I didn't see anything in the changelogs since the last version I have suggesting it's been changed, so...

Lix Potion Number Nine in Lovely doesn't require any actions to solve (0.9.17)! Is this intentional?

Assuming it's not, it should be possible to fix it by increasing the required save count from 40 to 41, or by adding one additional trap.

[Proxima]

In old Lix, the SI was higher on that level so you had to realise that you could set the SI to 4 and just wait. When Simon got rid of variable SI, we discussed the level and he argued for changing the initial SI to 4 to leave this solution in. It's still surprisingly easy to overlook.

[Proxima]

Simon proposed to me that we adopt "Oblique Strategy" from mobius's set into the lemforum pack. After having solved the level, I like it and agree with the suggestion.

I suggest removing Daunting 19 "This is Too Much Stepping Stones" (which is honestly rather trivial) and inserting Oblique Strategy at the same place.

I'd like to replace the fennec hatches with sandstone hatches, since I prefer to use matching terrain, hatches and exit where possible.

Now that the "misc" folder exists, it would be a good idea to collect removed levels from lemforum and add them to one or more subfolders in misc, so that they don't disappear altogether.

One option is to have a subfolder for removed levels, like mobius's "Project Capybara" collection (we could even adopt that name?) Another possibility is to group levels by author, although some authors have only one or two levels to collect.

[Forestidia86]

I liked Oblique Strategy and think it should be part of the main pack as well. The question is if it is rather Vicious than Daunting.

I think it's good to have a folder for the culled levels, too. I've covered some of these levels in the current physics.

[Simon]

My hunch is to rank Oblique Strategy into Vicious, with late Daunting as second choice. But I haven't solved Oblique Strategy independently: While solving, I was discussing ideas with Forestidia, she had solved it herself already. Thus, I can't assess it neutrally.

I'm fine to cut either Stickup (nasty to execute) or Too Much Stepping Stones (looks very bland). I'd rank Oblique Strategy higher than Too Much Stepping Stones.

Proxima, only for completeness: What is your feeling about Dream the Impossible Dream? Forestidia told me that there are unfixable backroutes in it. Would Dream be a candidate for cutting too, or is it better -- even with the backroute -- than Stickup or Too Much Stepping Stones?

-- Simon

[mobius]

I found this solution to Elixir which saves 1 jumper skill. I am uncertain to the intended solution cause geoo modified the level later after I originally made it. I remember years ago being stumped and watching the replay and sort of being blown away.

edit: oh yeah I could just watch the replay right now.... I sort of don't want to; in case this is a backroute; I want to solve it myself.
Couldn't resist and I looked
So in

Spoiler

geoo's solution its very similar but he used the extra jumper *in place* of the climber so he has 1 climber left over.

I'm curious if anyone thinks one solution is harder to find than the other.

[Forestidia86]

I'm not sure if the save one jumper solution is much harder to find than the geoo one.

Spoiler

The save one jumper solution uses in some sense one trick more, the other one has therefore timing.

Elixir has quite a few variants of solutions but they all are in some sense similiar. So it depends on what the key mechanic is supposed to be to decide if all are acceptable variants.

[mobius]

I'm not sure if the save one jumper solution is much harder to find than the geoo one.

Spoiler

The save one jumper solution uses in some sense one trick more, the other one has therefore timing.

Elixir has quite a few variants of solutions but they all are in some sense similiar. So it depends on what the key mechanic is supposed to be to decide if all are acceptable variants.

really? Can you elaborate on those other variants?

[Forestidia86]

We discussed this some time ago in another thread. You asked about other solutions (than Proxima's) and in the course of the discussion I posted 4 solutions. (Post one with two solutions, Post two with two further solutions)
Possible that there is overlap with geoo's, Proxima's and what you posted but don't know anymore.

Spoiler

You can even exploit the flinging of the exploder to save a floater.

[mobius]

oh thanks! Sorry; totally forgot about all those replays.

It doesn't matter to me btw; the level seems good as is.

[Forestidia86]

Is Another Funeral underranked? I think it is fine in Cunning but could be Daunting, too. Maybe change with Round Trip?

[Simon]

Reason to uprank Another Funeral: I haven't solved Another Funeral after spending a total of 5 hours across several days. I've solved the next 5 levels. I'll see where I'll get stuck the next time.

I feel that Another Funeral (late Cunning) should uprank by 20-80 levels. But Forestidia thinks that Another Funeral should uprank to early Daunting at most, e.g., swapping with Round Trip, that would be upranking by 5 levels.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Solved Another Funeral with the intended route. Excellent puzzle, thanks to mobius for stumping me for a year!

I still believe that it should uprank by at least 20 levels. The early half of Daunting seems easier than Another Funeral. Possibly it should uprank by 40 to 60, but I'd have to revisit Vicious to compare.

Reasons, spoiling

The timings look at first like they won't work.

Many exciting ideas fall short only late during play. I had several wrong routes; given either an extra jumper, or an extra builder, or an extra digger would have easily salvaged the wrong routes.

The final guiding light for me was to question assumptions about where to use the 2 bashers. That's not an obvious skill to second-guess: You never run out of bashers, but wrong routes will always run out of something else.

-- Simon