Lemmings Forums Level Contest #14

[IchoTolot]

Welcome to another contest of the Lemmingsforums! This time the three rules have been picked by Nessy as his prize for winning the last contest #13.

A few words to new participants and forum members: If you haven't entered before, I strongly encourage you to try - even if you don't win, it's fun to participate; and we have had cases where first-time entrants have won before (take the last contest as an example )!; there are three choices of rules given, you may enter one level each for up to two of the rules. You may use NeoLemmix, Lix, or SuperLemmini. If you have two entries, they may (but do not have to) be for the same engine. Please make sure you tested your level for basic solvability before submitting and be sure to also submit any custom tileset you are using, so others have no problem playing your level.

Here are the rules on how the submission deadlines work:
- Initial submission phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last submission, up to the 5th submission (inclusive). After this it no longer changes no matter what.
- Update phase deadline will not extend over the initial dead line anymore!
- Even if you missed the cutoff date for the initial submission phase, late entries are accepted until the update phase ends. There is no penalty for a late entry, beyond that people are less likely to spend as much time on the level before voting begins.

And here is the new ruleset provided by Nessy:

Rule 1

Create a level:
- With three hatches exactly
- With three lemmings/lixs exactly (3 pre-placed Lemmings instead of 3 hatches are allowed)
- Uses the default width and height canvas the editor gives you (320 by 160 in NeoLemmix and 640 by 400 in Lix). The level must be these sizes exactly; they are not minimum or maximum values.

Everything else such as save requirement is up to the designer. Also, Cloners are allowed.

Rule 2

Create a level with no steel and two hatches exactly. Everything else such as number of lemmings/lix and save requirement is up to the designer.

Rule 3

Create a level where the slots on the skill panel are filled with eight different skills, but you are only allowed to have exactly two of each skill. They can be NeoLemmix/Lix skills, classic skills, or a blend of both. However, at least one of each skill has to be used in the intended solution. There have to be exactly 8 different skills, so that would be a full NeoLemmix skillpanel, or 8 out of the 14 Lix skills.

Submission phase ends Februrary 22th 2018 at 00:00 UTC. This should give everyone enough time to think about a level. Deadline for the playing / update phase will be announced when it begins.

Ruleset in detail again: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2246.0

Send me a personal message with your level/s and if needed tileset/s to participate. It would also be nice to also tell me the rule which each level satisfies.

Prize selection:
- US $5.00
- One month's advertising on the forums news ticker
- Pick next contest's rules

Entries so far: 14

- Crane (2)
- Colorful Arty (2)
- IchoTolot (2)
- Raymanni (1)
- Flopsy (2)
- Nessy (2)
- SQron (1)
- bulletride (2)

[IchoTolot]

As this question came up in contest 13 and now again:

For NeoLemmix: It's all stable version ONLY, until the new format becomes stable - then future contests will be all new format.

I only want 1 version to be used to avoid unessesary confusion and still not yet fixed bugs to interfere with the contest. It would make the whole process more complicated and confusing.

Again once the new formats become stable, the contests will gladly use the new formats version in future contests, too.

[Flopsy]

While I respect the fact that new formats have to be excluded, I can see it being an unpopular decision particular with a lot of people making the switch to the new format recently.

I'm just throwing it out there.

[IchoTolot]

While I respect the fact that new formats have to be excluded, I can see it being an unpopular decision particular with a lot of people making the switch to the new format recently.

I'm just throwing it out there.

This is not about making a popular decision. It's about making the contest consistent, easy to access and clear. There are still crashes and bugs that need to be fixed on top of still missing features and there are still a lot of issue topics popping up. Example: The current version of the editor still crashes a lot for me and other people, which is only fixed after the next update in the new year.

It's a really good thing that people are finally making the switch to the new formats, but that has nothing to do with the contest, where a stable environment is needed for it to run smoothly and unproblematic. Using an experimental version doesn't make much sense for that, also having multiple versions of the same engine allowed is creating even more mess.

As I said: It doesn't matter if the decision is not the most popular one. You can play around and test out the new format version as much as you want and help out the further development, but for the contests it's the stable version of an engine only and when the new formats become stable they will take over.

[IchoTolot]

As I am reading the IRC logs (I read everything ), I think I need to make some things clear to people and clear out some of the confusion:

1.) Big letters don't mean to start any kind of argument, hurt anybody's feelings, raging against everybody, or bump you on the head. No, I just want to clearly highlight the rules that count for the contest (here the allowed/disallowed engines) and the basic rule design (clarity and simplicity over popularity). I don't count your words as argument starters as well, but I need to clear things up.

2.) I rather speak the final rules straight out, than making unclear, confusing or straight up false statements. I prefer to be clear, honest and direct, even if it can sound harsh. Even if some of you interpret this as aggressive and stubborn.

3.) "I think it's already stable". This is straight up false! With the recent version, I and quite a few other people get constant crashes in the editor (that one will be fixed soon), recently a big bug with the new pack builder has been discovered making the pack building process difficult (this affects a possible contest compilation as well), new player bugs are also discovered frequently and Nepster still has a ton of work for implementation now. This is still not stable! Yes, there will always be new bugs, but the big critical ones that constantly crash the program should at least be fixed.
Even without the contest there is still enough testing currently.

4.) I don't want to start long arguments at all, that's another reason I made the "stable version only" rule final.

5.) "I only have 1 level idea instead of 2 now." So it seems to be a problem that a few days after the contest is up you don't have clear ideas for both levels now. Good news: You still got a lot of time for a new one and the other one can still be made into a new formats level that you can use on something else!
The long time period has a reason.


Hope I cleared out any confusion about my statements.

I don't want to make this whole contest a complete confusing and frustrating mess on even more different engines. It should be easily accessible even for new members and that's only given if the biggest bugs in the room are finally fixed and the tools more optimized. I really like the new formats as well, but they simply aren't ready yet.

Still hoping for a nice contest:
IchoTolot

EDIT: Everything is now wrapped up in IRC and we can proceed as normal.

[namida]

To add to this - contest rules have always been stable versions only. It was the same during V1.47's development when V1.43 was the stable version; V1.47 was not allowed then either. And in general, creating new content targetting experimental versions is never advised, as there is never any guarantee that formats won't change (requiring extra work to keep your content working, or even destroying it beyond recovery altogether - during the early stages of the new formats this literally would have happened if anyone made content for it then, although I don't think there's a huge risk of it now).

Experimental versions should only be used to help with testing them, or to get a head start on preparing updates of existing content; it should never be used to create new content. (I'm speaking specifically regarding NeoLemmix here of course; I'm not sure what the situation tends to be with Lix.) New content should always target the current stable version. Even Lemmings Plus V, which was created when V1.43 was stable but with the knowledge that V1.47 would be released before it was finished, targetted V1.43 (albeit ultimately being released with the first release being a rare example of a pack 100% functionally* compatible with both V1.43 and V1.47).

* There were some cosmetic things that didn't work on V1.43, but these had no bearing on actual gameplay.

[IchoTolot]

The last days before the playing phase starts! Be sure to get your entries in!

[Scotty]

Hey, i'm interested in having a go at a level for this but i have a problem, in that my level editor for old format NeoLemmix shows up like this:



I have no problems with the new format. I guess i am missing files or something? Excuse my lack of familiarity with the program.

[IchoTolot]

It seems to be the case that you somehow got the new formats editor ---> it probably doesn't find any styles as they aren't included in that editor's download link and therefore the editor is empty.

Latest old format version editor (should come with player and basic styles): https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=122

This should work better.

[Scotty]

Spot on - thanks!

[grams88]

I could maybe try this one time,  maybe a bit too late for this one but I was wondering if the Neolemmix editor was  more complicated or is it a bit more simpler than the lemmix one we used in the past. I haven't been making levels for a long time so maybe this could go against me. lol

Another question was are you able to make lemmings tribe type levels where you can scroll up and down as well as left and right, sorry if my question does not makes sense.

Welcome to the forum Scotty.

[IchoTolot]

I could maybe try this one time,  maybe a bit too late for this one but I was wondering if the Neolemmix editor was  more complicated or is it a bit more simpler than the lemmix one we used in the past. I haven't been making levels for a long time so maybe this could go against me. lol

Another question was are you able to make lemmings tribe type levels where you can scroll up and down as well as left and right, sorry if my question does not makes sense.

Welcome to the forum Scotty.

For the first question: Download it and try it out! For me it was a lot easier, but you have to see yourself as it's just an opinion. Entries can also still be submitted during the playing phase.

For the second question: Yes we have vertical scrolling now.

[Crane]

I've just downloaded the new version of NeoLemmix and discovered that the Release Rate has been recalibrated.  Will this cause a problem for the levels I have already submitted?

[IchoTolot]

I've just downloaded the new version of NeoLemmix and discovered that the Release Rate has been recalibrated.  Will this cause a problem for the levels I have already submitted?

First of all: This contest will still be held in the old format where the recalibration isn't there yet, so this won't affect the contest at all.

Also: Converting levels to the new format won't break levels because of the new RR system.
As only every other number actually made a difference before: The old 1-99 is now 50-99 with 1-49 being new slower RRs for you to play around with. With converting the level to the new format the old number will get the equivalent new number so nothing will affect the level itself.