So, what have I missed?

[0xdeadbeef]

Ok guys,

about XML:
To be honest, I don't see the need for XML there.  BTW: I have more configuration files than the levels and all are in simple text format (so I can load them in as java properties). This costs me no extra code or effort while for XML I would need to include an XML API like JDOM or something.
XML is probably a good thing for other purposes, but for a lemmings level description it's a bit "over the top" IMHO.

about "missing" levels:
Indeed I converted all "Oh No!" levels that are in the Win95 version.  If this version misses some levels, could someone provide me with these - if possible in the Win95 format?

about my progress:
I had my notebook with me this weekend and could continue development a little bit. Indeed I fixed some things (climbers, walkers walking out of level ceiling) and added playing of midi music and sound effects. Both functions need a little polishing, but already work quite ok.
I also added bombers and the nuke button and while both work to some degree (countdown, explode animation and explode mask subtracted from collision mask and background image), this will need some more effort to work like it should. E.g. particle effects are missing and if nuked, all lemmings explode at once, while they should explode one after the other.

BTW:
I just wonder: how did the original (Amiga) version select the music for a level? Is this random or are the tracks looped or is the relation level <-> music defined somewhere (at least for some levels)

[Mindless]

Ok guys,

about XML:
To be honest, I don't see the need for XML there.  BTW: I have more configuration files than the levels and all are in simple text format (so I can load them in as java properties). This costs me no extra code or effort while for XML I would need to include an XML API like JDOM or something.
XML is probably a good thing for other purposes, but for a lemmings level description it's a bit "over the top" IMHO.

That's fine, it was just a suggestion.  Perhaps you can add it after you get the game finished... perhaps not...  O_o

[ccexplore]

BTW:
I just wonder: how did the original (Amiga) version select the music for a level? Is this random or are the tracks looped or is the relation level <-> music defined somewhere (at least for some levels)

Unlike the DOS version, in the Amiga and many other versions, there's a definite level <-> music relationship for all levels, and it's basically a loop.

Basically there's a sequence of 17 music, and it is repeated over and over, so Fun 18 gets the same music as Fun 1 for example.  The only exception is the 4 "special graphics" levels which have their own music.  I forgot what happens to the sequence whe interrupted by the special graphics levels (ie. whether Fun 23 gets the music of Fun 6 or Fun 5), except that the Amiga/SNES/etc. behavior is opposite that of DOS's.

I forgot what the sequence is on the Amiga, but I have a feeling it's probably the one presented by the jukebox:

http://www.deveria.com/alexis/lemmings/lemmings/music/lemjuke.html

Note also that in the Amiga (and a few other) versions, since ONML is released separately from Lemmings, the ONML levels have their own repeating music sequence (though only 6 rather than 17).

[Proxima]

I forgot what happens to the sequence whe interrupted by the special graphics levels (ie. whether Fun 23 gets the music of Fun 6 or Fun 5)

I asked the exact question a while ago:
http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1114699813

EDIT: see ccexplore's post below.

[ccexplore]

I asked the exact question a while ago:
http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1114699813

The answer is that Fun 23 gets the Fun 5 music, so the sequence continues one level delayed, the music is not skipped.

Please note what I just said (bold added for emphasis):

I forgot what happens to the sequence whe interrupted by the special graphics levels (ie. whether Fun 23 gets the music of Fun 6 or Fun 5), except that the Amiga/SNES/etc. behavior is opposite that of DOS's.

I'm fairly sure DragonsLover checked the DOS version of the game.  So since 0xdeadbeef asked about the Amiga version, your answer is actually incorrect since the opposite happens on the Amiga.

[goes check the Amiga version. 10 minutes later...]

Yep, the Amiga version skips the Fun 5 music after Fun 22.

[Proxima]

Aha! And that actually makes more sense, since I expect the Mac does the same, and that would stop there being a major screw-up with my edited sets that had the special levels in different places (since each level number is always associated with the same music). Thank you!

[0xdeadbeef]

Hm, the Win95 version has only 15 songs.
Compared to the Jukebox, the order seems to be:

01: cancanp.mid
02: LEMMIN1P.MID
03: TIM2P.MID
04: LEMMIN2P.MID
05: TIM8P.MID
06: TIM3P.MID
07: TIM5P.MID
08:
09: TIM6P.MID
10: LEMMIN3P.MID
11: TIM7P.MID
12: TIM9P.MID
13: TIM1P.MID
14:
15: TIM4P.MID
16: TENLEMSP.MID
17: MOUNTAIP.MID

So I'm missing already 2 songs for the original levels: 8 and 14.

I got a midi called Menacing from one of the guys here, but  don't have the songs for the three other special levels.

I mean, I have all the songs as MP3s, but these are much larger and need more runtime than the midi songs.

Any chance I can get the missing songs as midis from somewhere?

[EDIT]
Hm, seems I found song 14 on a NES midi site. Still 4 songs missing.

[Isu]

The other non-special level you are missing is "How much is that doggie...", this wasn't on the win95 version, but you should be able to find a midi of it on the internet (via a search engine), or I could just send the midi I have to you.

[0xdeadbeef]

Hm, the midis easily found are obviously all the same boring piano version of the doggie-song which don't really sound much like the Amiga version. I found a version that's a little better, but still doesn't really fit into the playlist.

[Mindless]

How hard would it be to add MOD support to the game instead of MIDI?

[ccexplore]

Hm, the midis easily found are obviously all the same boring piano version of the doggie-song which don't really sound much like the Amiga version. I found a version that's a little better, but still doesn't really fit into the playlist.

You'd be hard-put to find a version of doggie that sounds even close to the Amiga, or heck, even the DOS one for that matter.

Both incorporate dog barks, which isn't standard MIDI instrument.  The Amiga one uses samples for the dog barks.

[0xdeadbeef]

How hard would it be to add MOD support to the game instead of MIDI?

There are MOD libraries available for Java, so this wouldn't be too much of a hassle, I guess. However, as far as I understand, even on the Amiga, the songs are not in a standard MOD format (Protracker/Fastracker, whatever), but in a custom "Soundplayer" format.

If I had the Amiga songs in a Tracker-compatible MOD-format, this would be surely a good alternative to the MIDI format.

[ccexplore]

Let's not worry about this for now then.  If I were to remake Lemmings, music would be the lowest priority right below sound effects.

[Timballisto]

...being able to edit lemmings music in it's original style would be pretty cool though.  

That reminds me.  I find that there are two ways that lemming music can sound.  For one way (this one being the way I don't like) the first level has an instrument that sounds like a truck  motor.  For the second way, (Awesome sounding) no instrument even resembles a truck motor, and instead of maintaining the same volume the whole time during a note, they fade out much like when you hit a piano key, but don't let go of it.  I think this is because of differences in the sound card or something but I don't know.

[DragonsLover]

The songs that are missing in WinLem are the song number 11 and the number 17 in the original version of Lemmings. On Atari ST, Amiga and PC: they have all 17 songs. On WinLem: only 15 (and this not include the Ohno! ones). I've sequenced these songs, the hardest one to make is the song number 11. I prefer the Atari ST one because the song 11 on Atari ST is longer than the other versions.

about "missing" levels:
Indeed I converted all "Oh No!" levels that are in the Win95 version. &#A0;If this version misses some levels, could someone provide me with these - if possible in the Win95 format?

In Oh no! more Lemmings, the only level not available for WinLem is, of course: INTRODUCING: SUPERLEMMING.

In original lemmings, only the special levels.

About the music sequence (based on the Lemmings Jukebox and after, the WinLemm song):

Under Dos
1. Track 2 - Lemmin1p
2. Track 4 - Lemmin2p
3. Track 10 - Lemmin3p
4. Track 17 - Mountaip
5. Track 16 - Tenlemsp
6. Track 1 - Cancanp
7. Track 13 - Tim1p
8. Track 3 - Tim2p
9. Track 6 - Tim3p
10. Track 15 - Tim4p
11. Track 8 - {Unavailable}
12. Track 7 - Tim5p
13. Track 9 - Tim6p
14. Track 11 - Tim7p
15. Track 5 - Tim8p
16. Track 12 - Tim9p
17. Track 14 - {Unavailable}

For the amiga songs, the order is the same than on the Jukebox.

For the Atari ST list, I'll do it tomorrow!