Lemmings Forums Level Contest #13 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Forestidia86]

I have a solution for Simon's renewed level (V8).
If that's intended I think I would have never gotten to that idea in the original level.  It feels somehow out of the box.

[Simon]

Forestidia: That's practically the intended solution. Well done!

Forestidia, small detail

My solution assigns the digger on top of the middle pillar, not to the right of the middle pillar. But like you did, I then cancel it by builder assignment underneath the floor.

This avoids the feeling that the digger digs while standing on air. I'm not even sure whether I want this behavior in the first place -- it is pixel-precise, it works only one pixel to the side of the pillar. NeoLemmix would allow more leeway for this digger. But since NL allows it at all, it's probably not a huge problem in Lix to allow it, too.

-- Simon

[Forestidia86]

Concerning the small detail: That way it doesn't seem that odd for me anymore like how I did it in my solution. I practically tried around until I saw that this could work out.

[Simon]

Okay, cool! Thanks for the frequent tries through all the iterations. Happy that you found the intended route.

I'd like to keep the small level. Even if I have to decorate it for the tileset-mixing rule, unless backroutes appear, I'll keep its functionality.

-- Simon

[IchoTolot]

Ok, V8 solved and here is some feedback regardless of not confirming to any one of the rules:

This has to be the intended solution as there's nothing else left that you even can do and here begin the problems on why I think V7 was the way superior version:

- The entropy of the level is extremely low. If you don't assign a skill on a designated spot you will be roasted, so the solution is served to you on a silver plate and it makes the level extremely easy.
  This leads to the next problem:

- Getting roasted if you do nearly anything is not very fun to play. Lemmings and Lix I would say is also for a bigger part trying out different approaches even if they fail. Here you get immidiatly roasted and that really sucks out the fun of trying out different things.

- The level feels cramped together. Miniatures in general have this problem, but here it is more severe. Everything is in such a tight space covered in fire that is not really that good looking and you've got no room to do anything (related to the problems before).

- The looks of the level went from beautiful to meh. In the V7 version we had a nice looking landscape with water and plants, now we've got a tiny cramped together structure with tons of fire on it.

The most important point:
- The backroutes were often similar to the intended way I must say and I think getting the crowd contained in general made the level interesting and was the heart of the level (not the exact intended way). The different ways you could approach and accomplish the problem made this a good level. Now you can't do anything and it feels empty and boring. Scrap the exact intended way and keep the alternatives! This is a case where the intended way holds back the level big time and only causes horrible overfixing, minimising of entropy and a cramped together design, while trowing away the approach and fun side of the level with the alternatives.

That's why I think V7 was by far the superior version and I would keep that a million times over V8.

[Nepster]

Another backroute for Simon, this time for V8. Btw, I disagree with IchoTolot and prefer the miniature.

[nin10doadict]

Well, I didn't know you could having a lemming be touching the ground yet still in a falling state, thus allowing instant use of a stoner to form a wall that touches the ground. Can't fix that, but I can find other ways to prevent you from using it.

[IchoTolot]

Well, I didn't know you could having a lemming be touching the ground yet still in a falling state, thus allowing instant use of a stoner to form a wall that touches the ground. Can't fix that, but I can find other ways to prevent you from using it.

Resolved the level, both solutions needed adjustments. I think this might be it, but now the start execution is really annoying. For the first stoner extreme precision and timing is needed as you want the exact ammount of lems to pass but still have enough of a gap between them, because of the teleporter. Would lower the RR here by a bit to ease the execution.

[nin10doadict]

Looks like it finally has the solutions I'm going for. Yes, the execution at the start is now very fiddly, but if I turn down the release rate too much then it allows the old backroute to come back again.
That said, it can be lowered a bit without letting the backroute reappear. It's still a little fiddly (I think the left side is the harder side now thanks to having to use a different skill), but it's better. Hopefully I won't have to make any more changes after this.
Thank you Icho for being so patient with the testing!

[IchoTolot]

Much better on the execution side, this little change was enough for me!

Thank you Icho for being so patient with the testing!

That's what I do.

[IchoTolot]

Only 2 days until updates close!

If you want to do more changes, now is the time!

[IchoTolot]

Updates have closed now!

The update topic is locked and the rest of the month is reserved for you to play the latest versions of the entries.

[Nessy]

Hi, sorry that this took so long but I may have finally figured out the second intended solution to Colorful Arty's "Crystal Enclosure" (a solution that does not go through the ceiling). I have attached that replay below.

Comments

If it is intended or close to intended then... wow . Very creative solution and I can understand why you wanted to enforce that solution. Unfortunately there were some parts that felt hackish (my fault though), but hopefully the spirit of the solution is there.

[Colorful Arty]

Holy miner physics Batman! That is an impressive solution!

Spoiler

You got the main trick with the builders and cloners correct, but the rest of it was much more hackish and precise than necessary.
You can go through the crystals in a more elegant way, but amazing job! I consider that perfectly acceptable!

[Nessy]

Yep just as I predicted: I over-complicated the heck out of it . Sorry about that. I went back and I believe I found the true intended way of getting through the terrain. The replay is attached below.

Spoiler

The terrain is excellent the way it is laid out, as you can figure out how to navigate the level by paying attention to how the crystals are positioned.