Fencer problem solved - but now I have a backroute

[Strato Incendus]

Hi everyone,

a thing that continued to annoy me about the Fencer is the fact that by design they get cancelled so easily - either by bumping their heads on ceilings, or because two Fencers facing towards each other cut off each other's paths.

So I made this level (attached) where it is necessary to make both Fencers go through. The main difficulty here is obviously: How do I make the second Fencer continue once he reaches the tunnel the first one has created?

After fiddeling around with platformers, builders, and stackers for a while, always cloning them to increase their number and add to the amount of terrain they produce, there was still a tiny gap between the stacks remaining in which the Fencer would fall and thereby stop his action. The solution then was to make one of these stackers a stoner and thereby fill that remaining gap with the lemming's body (see the first attached replay).

The problem is: The stoner breaks the level because it allows a backroute (see the second attached replay): There the stoner gets used to break the fall of the lemmings on one side, while the fencer creates the path for those on the other side.

Any ideas on how to solve this? I was really glad I discovered this way to make fencers go through, but how do I force the player towards this solution?

I already thought about exchanging the floater for a glider and putting fire or water right beneath where the lemmings would drop off the cliff - but then the lemmings would still run into that trap once the way down has been paved for them.

[mobius]

fencer's get canceled by hitting their heads? really? this doesn't sound right; I've not experimented with them much but that sounds like a glitch to me.

[IchoTolot]

a thing that continued to annoy me about the Fencer is the fact that by design they get cancelled so easily - either by bumping their heads on ceilings, or because two Fencers facing towards each other cut off each other's paths.

fencer's get canceled by hitting their heads? really? this doesn't sound right; I've not experimented with them much but that sounds like a glitch to me.

Of course they cancel when they hit their heads on the ceiling, what else should they do? Go through the steel roof?   Miners also cancel hitting the ground as an analog case.

Tested it again in the editor and I see no buggy or glitchy behavior here.

Also, when they cut off each others path of course they stop ---- they encounter a downwards slope which means cancel. Allowing them to go down makes them a miner and they would be the complete opposite of what they should achieve. A miner can also not go up.

So I made this level (attached) where it is necessary to make both Fencers go through. The main difficulty here is obviously: How do I make the second Fencer continue once he reaches the tunnel the first one has created?

After fiddeling around with platformers, builders, and stackers for a while, always cloning them to increase their number and add to the amount of terrain they produce, there was still a tiny gap between the stacks remaining in which the Fencer would fall and thereby stop his action. The solution then was to make one of these stackers a stoner and thereby fill that remaining gap with the lemming's body (see the first attached replay).

The problem is: The stoner breaks the level because it allows a backroute (see the second attached replay): There the stoner gets used to break the fall of the lemmings on one side, while the fencer creates the path for those on the other side.

Any ideas on how to solve this? I was really glad I discovered this way to make fencers go through, but how do I force the player towards this solution?

I already thought about exchanging the floater for a glider and putting fire or water right beneath where the lemmings would drop off the cliff - but then the lemmings would still run into that trap once the way down has been paved for them.

Well, I needed to do a turning fencer once while solving a level, creating a > shape. I remember 2 stoners, 1 platformer and a blocker where needed and personally I did not like the level because it was too fiddly -- it was pixel precise and I was glad the level only contained that trick.
So 2 crossing fencers should also be managable to do with 2 stoners and a platformer. I would add roughly 2 more stoners to make it less fiddly and reedit the level so the stoners do not cause backroutes anymore. Again not a big fan of the trick.

The fencer acts gamewise as kind of a counterpart to the miner --- miners can't go up, fencers can't go down. Too much leeway here would cause the fencers to be able to go down slopes which is counterproductive. The fencer was made more forgiving as he was implemented back in the days. In the past he stopped more easily, especially at the first fences.

[Nepster]

You seem to have lots of time between the two fencers. Then making the fencer continue is a lot easier than creating the > shape that IchoTolot metioned.
See the attached example level and replay for a way to do this with one platformer and one stacker. As the stacker needs to be placed very precisely, I suggest to allow the player to use two stackers for this part. The platformer has to be very precise anyway, but I can't think of a way to avoid this.

EDIT: Attached a wrong replay at first - fixed now.

[Strato Incendus]

Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating to any changes regarding the physics / behaviour of the Fencer; I just wanted to find a solution to make two Fencers cross each other's paths.

So 2 crossing fencers should also be managable to do with 2 stoners and a platformer. I would add roughly 2 more stoners to make it less fiddly and reedit the level so the stoners do not cause backroutes anymore. Again not a big fan of the trick.

Probably because it's difficult to execute, am I right? More stoners would certainly make it easier to pull off, and thereby less of a problem. Now that I've slept on it, I think adding just two more blocks of steel at the edges of the cliffs will remove the stoner backroute, because the crowd won't be able to go over them, only the cloned climber-floater-athletes will.

I might do a similar level now, or even a re-run of this one, with miners crossing each other's paths.

Thanks, everyone!