Where are the Original Lemmings 2 Player levels?

[Strato Incendus]

Hi guys,

so, in one of Flopsy's tutorial videos where he showed how to dump levels from a pack currently opened in Neo Lemmix, he mentioned that this function would also dump the 2 player levels if used on Original Lemmings.

In my case however, they don't appear in the dump folder; it stops after 0430. Have they been removed? I'd just like to take a look at them, since I barely remember them from back in the day when I would play Lemmings on the Atari . I still have a remake of the Amiga version where I can access the levels by playing them through, but that's kinda silly considering the green player can't do anything. If I had them as dump files however, I could perhaps create some more interesting solutions by treating them as single player levels.

[namida]

They may have been moved to the Extra Levels NXP, not sure off the top of my head. I'll take a look when I'm on PC.

[Flopsy]

I just checked the Extra levels nxp and they are in there

They are in the 4th rank called "2P", and it also includes all of the Oh No 2 Player levels as a bonus

you can get the Extra levels nxp on this page

http://www.neolemmix.com/?page=official

Just dump this nxp and it'll be all the levels starting with 04 since it's the 4th rank.

[GigaLem]

While We're on the subject of 2P levels, I had an Idea

The 2P levels but designed for one player

[Proxima]

Three of my levels in the Lix community set are single-player remakes of the two-player levels: Lovely 2 "Pipe Dream" (based on "The Pipe Room"), Lovely 4 "Diamond Dash" (based on one of the unique Genesis levels), Vicious 32 "Survival of the Craftiest" (based on "May the craftiest player win".

[bsmith]

I made this variation of 'May the craftiest player win' a while back.  Not sure how it compares Proxima's level as I don't play Lix.

[namida]

While We're on the subject of 2P levels, I had an Idea

The 2P levels but designed for one player

That's LITERALLY what Strato said in his post that he's planning to do.

[Flopsy]

This post has kind of inspired me to make something out of a few of the 2 player levels.

SEB Lems may see a few more new levels before the pack is complete

Thanks for this topic Strato

[Strato Incendus]

Thanks, everyone! I have taken a look at the 2 player levels from the Extra Levels pack, and it seems like the original Amiga 2 player levels are interspersed with some custom made ones (?). For example, in the original version, "Still everything worth to play for" is the second level already; in Extra Levels, it is the third - the second one being a level called "We're in this one together". Notably, those custom made 2 player levels seem a lot harder than the original ones . The original Amiga levels often barely required a particular player to do anything, but seemed more like a "battlefield", i.e. enough space between trap door and exit to steal each others lemmings and lure them into one's own exit.

While We're on the subject of 2P levels, I had an Idea

The 2P levels but designed for one player

This post has kind of inspired me to make something out of a few of the 2 player levels.

Ah, I see there's much ambition for this around here!

Well, at first glance that already seems to be the case in the 2 P rank of Extra Levels, as I have found out now - there's only one player, Lemmings are coming out both ways, so theoretically they already are "2 player levels for one player". However, the major problem is the "indifference" of the exits. The original purpose of many of those levels was having the blue lemmings' trap door right next to the green lemmings' exit and vice versa, so you would have to get around your opponent's exit as if it were a trap, in order not to give them any benefits.

With just a single player however, it doesn't matter which exit lemmings enter, so many of these levels just solve themselves . I imagine this would be a perfect place to use "limited number exits" that only allow a certain number of lemmings in before they "close" like a locked exit (at least that's the way this works in Pit Droids; effectively, I guess it's just that the exit trigger disappears). But even that would only solve part of the issue, because if both players have e.g. 40 Lemmings and both exits can hold up to 40 lemmings, a single player could still have the lemmings from each trap door just walk straight to the exit nearby rather than solving the actual level.

So what would be required for this? The other kind of "limited exits" that only allow climbers / floaters etc. in? That's another Pit Droids feature, by the way, where there were exits that only allowed droids with certain colours or tools to enter, so I'd support that idea in general.

Or we would actually have to have two different lemming sprites in these levels, like in the original version, but make it so that only blue pants Lemmings can enter the exit with the blue flag, and the same for the green ones and the green exit.

I'm just trying to remember, wasn't this the way the balloon exits in Lemmings Revolution worked? Meaning water lemmings could only enter the white balloon with the blue-haired head on it, and regular lemmings could only enter the blue, green-haired balloon? I certainly remember there were red balloons that allowed all three kinds of lemmings (regular, water, and acid) to enter; that's why I conclude the mono-coloured balloons were lemming sprite-specific.

[Proxima]

Thanks, everyone! I have taken a look at the 2 player levels from the Extra Levels pack, and it seems like the original Amiga 2 player levels are interspersed with some custom made ones (?).

No, those are all the original levels, but they're out of order. "We're in this one together" was Level 20.

Levels 1 to 20 of the Extra Levels 2P rank are the original Lemmings 2-player levels; I'm not sure where "Battle at Midway" comes from; 22 to 31 are the ONML ones; 32 to 34 are the unique levels that replaced "The Pipe Room", "Crystal Cavern Mark II" and "Graffiti" in the Genesis version.

Well, at first glance that already seems to be the case in the 2 P rank of Extra Levels, as I have found out now - there's only one player, Lemmings are coming out both ways, so theoretically they already are "2 player levels for one player". However, the major problem is the "indifference" of the exits. The original purpose of many of those levels was having the blue lemmings' trap door right next to the green lemmings' exit and vice versa, so you would have to get around your opponent's exit as if it were a trap, in order not to give them any benefits.

Well, you have a lot of freedom as to how to adapt the levels. For instance, "The Pipe Room" is one of those where each player's entrance is right next to the opponent's exit, so if you make it a single-player level with no changes, it solves itself. For my Lix version, I removed one entrance and one exit, so you have to go all the way across the level.

[Flopsy]

Just a heads up as well.

I used one of the Genesis 2 Player levels (levels 32-34) to make a level and I modified the existing level.

Quite a nasty bug occurred where I couldn't even test the level, I wound up having to remake the level from scratch using the standard equivalent tileset and not the Genesis one and it worked fine then.

I'm curious to know if this happens to anyone else if they modify a 2P level from the dump folder.

I reported the bug in this topic

http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3365.msg65413#msg65413

EDIT: I realised where I went wrong, I actually shrunk the level to half the size and forgot that a trapdoor was outside the boundary area. Make sure you don't make this mistake.

[GigaLem]

@Strato Incendus If we had the same Idea I wouldn't mind working with you on it, I've already made a couple (one is a repeat with neolemmix skills, and I already have Idea for another)

my Idea for it is one with normal skills and one with neo skills