Lemmings 2 - Tension sheet - Game Boy Version

[adam0509]

Hey there,

Big lemming fan here,


I played Lemmings 2 The Tribes like 20 years ago on the GameBoy Version,

On this version you just have 8 lemmings (Gameboy limitation...). You need to save them all in every level. I managed to save them all for all tribes except CLASSIC. On the level 4 (Tension Sheet - Password = SPFHBFHJ), I can't save every lemmings. At the time I only manage to save 2 lemmings. Reconsidering the level today, and seeing some video, I have got a solution that helps me to save only 7 Lemmings (Note = the levels are not exactly the same...!)

I've always wondering how to save them ALL ! This question beat my mind for 20 years now !!

So I challenge you to suceed !

[IchoTolot]

Your long time mystery has been solved!

My guide for the level:

1.) Send a climber+floater over the wall.
2.) Build over the first water gap.
3.) Shortly before reaching the 2nd gap send another climber+floater over the wall.
4.) Build over the 2nd gap with the first lem using 2 builders.
5.) Make the builder a blocker on the bridge when he is finished.
6.) The 2nd lem should turn at the blocker (Make a save state! My emulator was able to at least ).
7.) Mine down in such a way that he beaches to the lower tunnel and is also as low as he can gets (one miner swing more and he falls out of the map) ---> he still turns at the steel. So ~ only the upper part of the miner tunnel breaches to the tunnel. This is nearly pixel-precise! Normally mining on steel doesn't turn here.
8.) Make another save state! Pause exactly before the blocker and free the blocker with a miner performed by the other lem. To ease the selection: Come with your cursor slowly from the left and stop if the cross turns into a square ---> only the walker is in the selection. The 2 athletes are now safe!
9.) Make another save state! Select a right facing lem from the crowd near the left pillar and dig. Dig a bit and then turn the digger into a right facing miner ---> this ensures they all walk to the right into the prepared miner tunnel. Pausing at a moment where the other lems in the digger pit are all on one side helps selecting the digger using the same cursor technique as before.
10.) 8/8 saved!

+ I even have a basher to spare     Make sure to use the save states or you will be in replaying hell!

The code for the 5th level was in my case (I don't know if it's always the same. This was the first time I played Lemmings on a freaking gameboy ): AAFBFHBG

Hope I could help you! But I still would suggest the DOS version for Lemmings 2 as not having the mouse is painful --- although with the ability to pause + select a skill at the same time I was able to easily perform a basher staircase

If you want to --- try out some custom Lemmings packs here! NeoLemmix and Lix provide you with enough stuff for eternity and precise controls to make excecuting solutions easy --> your only problem is actually finding the solution!

EDIT: A neat thing I found in this version: You can cancel a miner with a basher when he is about to move forward. Also if you need a visual presentation of the solution: I could try and record a video.

[Leo]

It is painful to play without a mouse, but you can't just switch to some other (mouse supported) version, like it's doesn't matter. Levels are not the same. It's not the same game.
Although, it's not a bad idea to switch to Sega Game Gear version (much more colorful graphics and better sound) or Sega Master System (not so good as GG in graphics and sound, but certainly better then Gameboy). Master System version is easiest to play of all 8-bit versions, because resolution is much higher then GB and GG (even higher then SNES version). So, 'window' to the level is much bigger.

[ccexplore]

Now I'm intrigued.  Are you sure it really requires saving all 8 on all levels?  Even on DOS Lemmings 2 there are a few levels where you are expected to lose 1 or 2 for gold (the fact that it turns out there exists a no-loss solution for all levels is a separate matter).  It would appear IchoTolot found a no-loss solution for the level, though it also sounded way more like a challenge solution than a more typical solution, especially if it relies so heavily on savestates, which of course doesn't exist on the actual Gameboy.

Not sure that's enough to get me to try to find a download of the ROM and install an emulator for it (esp. a Gameboy version of all versions ), but tempting...

And to be fair, it wouldn't be the first time a level seems suspiciously too hard.  There was one level in NES Lemmings 1 that I remembered as being way harder than average compare to other levels, and when you compare it against the Gameboy version (which has similar but not identical levels, also similar but not identical physics), there is reason to suspect they might have set the save requirement incorrectly on the NES version.

[adam0509]

Done ! Thank you


Now I can finish the game I didn't 100% clear 20 years ago XD


This forum is amazing guys !

[IchoTolot]

Glad to hear that you've made it!

[Leo]

8-bit ports of Lemmings 2 are different. As I can see in mu quick check, there are Gold, Silver and Bronze medals, but not Silver or Bronze part of the Talisman. If all medals are not Gold there is no part of the Talisman as a reward at the end. Apparently, it's not given how much lemmings can die on each level, it's how much must be minimally saved. For the Classic tribe, it's like that:

Level   1 - 8 Lemmings
Level   2 - 8 Lemmings
Level   3 - 8 Lemmings
Level   4 - 7 Lemmings
Level   5 - 6 Lemmings
Level   6 - 6 Lemmings
Level   7 - 5 Lemmings
Level   8 - 5 Lemmings
Level   9 - 4 Lemmings
Level 10 - 4 Lemmings

At the end, at least 4 lemmings must be saved, regardless how much of them entered last level. If 8 lemmings entered level 10, then 4 can be lost, but if only 4 entered level, all must be saved.

[ccexplore]

So if I understand correctly, effectively you are allowed to lose 1 (out of 8 to save 7) in Classic level 4 on Gameboy.  This is consistent with regular Lemmings 2 ports like DOS and Amiga, where you are allowed to lose 1 for gold on that same level ("Tension sheet..."), even though yes, a no-loss solution has been known forever.  Based on adam's screenshots, Gameboy's version of the level doesn't actually seem all too different from DOS/Amiga, though I'm sure it's very misleading to judge that from a mere few screenshots and not actually playing.

So I guess for Classic, Gameboy also has very different versions (or maybe just omitted/some other level entirely) for "The Magnificent Severn", "So close but so far away" and "The Secret Of LEMH"?  Those are the other Classics levels in DOS/Amiga that expect losses for gold, and is generally considered challenging to solve without losses.

[edit: though I supposed for "Severn", having only 8 lemmings might actually make no-loss easier, assuming it's similar enough to DOS]

[Leo]

As I can see yes, at 'Tenshion sheet' 1 lemming can be lost, but if you are able to save all, then you are allowed to lose that one lemming on any of the later levels.
Classic tribe levels for Gameboy (and of course, also for Game Gear and Master System) are very similar to the other (non 8-bit versions) but on the other tribes there are plenty of differences. Some levels are entirely new. There are even two new skills 'Magic Bridge' and 'Pyramider'. Sadly, 9 skills are missing in the 8-bit versions.
It's hard to play Gameboy or Gamegear version because of so small 'window' to the level. Much more comfortable is Master System port. But, as I can use unlimited skills cheat on Gameboy, it's much faster to check things on that one.

[adam0509]

8-bit ports of Lemmings 2 are different. As I can see in mu quick check, there are Gold, Silver and Bronze medals, but not Silver or Bronze part of the Talisman. If all medals are not Gold there is no part of the Talisman as a reward at the end. Apparently, it's not given how much lemmings can die on each level, it's how much must be minimally saved. For the Classic tribe, it's like that:

Level   1 - 8 Lemmings
Level   2 - 8 Lemmings
Level   3 - 8 Lemmings
Level   4 - 7 Lemmings
Level   5 - 6 Lemmings
Level   6 - 6 Lemmings
Level   7 - 5 Lemmings
Level   8 - 5 Lemmings
Level   9 - 4 Lemmings
Level 10 - 4 Lemmings

At the end, at least 4 lemmings must be saved, regardless how much of them entered last level. If 8 lemmings entered level 10, then 4 can be lost, but if only 4 entered level, all must be saved.

Is it just an example ?
I'm pretty sure you can finish classic tribe with 8 lemmings. Working actually on it.


P.S : Instant save make the game better. Usually it's cheating but in that game it's just compulsory. Don't know how I Was able to finish all the other levels on a fucking Gameboy XD

[ccexplore]

Yeah, we're not disputing that you can potentially do better than what the game actually requires for gold.  Just that when you first posted, you kind of made it sound like the Gameboy version won't let you get the gold talismans unless you save all lemmings on all levels, which if true would be quite different from other ports, as a few levels on the more well-played ports were designed with a likely intended solution that loses lemmings.

[ccexplore]

I finally had a proper look of the game boy version's Classic tribe on the emulator.  I see the key difference in GB's version of "Tension Sheet" that makes the usual no-loss solution from other ports not quite applicable (hint: there's a reason why Ichotolot mentioned he doesn't need the basher).  I would however simplify Icho's solution as follows:

1) Instead of steps 5 and 8, I'd just use the single-worker method used in this solution for turning around the builder to mine left with, which still works in GB version.

2) For step 9, since you have a spare floater courtesy of change #1, assign the 2nd lemming out a floater (assuming you use the 1s lemming out as the pathmaking athlete).  Lemmings 2 favors earlier-out lemmings when multiple lemmings are under the cursor, so 2nd lemming will always get favored over other lemmings for skill assignments.  And since floaters have different color than non-floaters, you can easily identify the 2nd lemming out at any time.  Making him dig guarantees you can also assign him the miner without worrying about other lemmings receiving the skill assignment instead.

Then the only tricky part left is step 7. 

I also see how "Severn", "So Close" and "Lemh" become easier on the Gameboy version:  Severn and especially Lemh greatly benefitted from having 8 instead of 60 lemmings while still given same amount of skills (Lemh in particular means you can assign everyone a climber), and "So Close" is simply modified in the terrain (as well as given one more digger) to make a no-loss solution fairly straightforward.

[Leo]

Just a few screenshots as a reminder how ports of the game are different (or similar).

Usually it's:
A mere stone's throw - Highland level 4

But on the 8-bit ports it's without (') and it's moved two levels later:
A mere stones throw - Highland level 6


Acorn Archimedes - probably the most similar to Amiga version


FM Towns - with added colors (similar to PC)


Gameboy - monocromatic and so tiny screen


Game Gear - much more colorful but still too small screen


Master System - the same level layout as GB and GG but much bigger screen


SNES - smaller screen than SMS but 'normal' level layout and nice background

[IchoTolot]

I finally had a proper look of the game boy version's Classic tribe on the emulator.  I see the key difference in GB's version of "Tension Sheet" that makes the usual no-loss solution from other ports not quite applicable (hint: there's a reason why Ichotolot mentioned he doesn't need the basher).  I would however simplify Icho's solution as follows:

1) Instead of steps 5 and 8, I'd just use the single-worker method used in this solution for turning around the builder to mine left with, which still works in GB version.

2) For step 9, since you have a spare floater courtesy of change #1, assign the 2nd lemming out a floater (assuming you use the 1s lemming out as the pathmaking athlete).  Lemmings 2 favors earlier-out lemmings when multiple lemmings are under the cursor, so 2nd lemming will always get favored over other lemmings for skill assignments.  And since floaters have different color than non-floaters, you can easily identify the 2nd lemming out at any time.  Making him dig guarantees you can also assign him the miner without worrying about other lemmings receiving the skill assignment instead.

Then the only tricky part left is step 7. 

I also see how "Severn", "So Close" and "Lemh" become easier on the Gameboy version:  Severn and especially Lemh greatly benefitted from having 8 instead of 60 lemmings while still given same amount of skills (Lemh in particular means you can assign everyone a climber), and "So Close" is simply modified in the terrain (as well as given one more digger) to make a no-loss solution fairly straightforward.

Well for me the miner + builder resolving in a turnaround did not work in this version ---> steps 5 and 8 were required. The builder seems to go a bit steeper and I did not manage him to turn without a blocker.

This would lead to the neat trick you described for step 9 not beeing possible anymore.

[ccexplore]

Well for me the miner + builder resolving in a turnaround did not work in this version ---> steps 5 and 8 were required.

Hmm, works fine for me, as I said I tried this on the emulator.  I didn't even start build quite as close to the edge as possible.  You could also stretch the builder if needed though it works without stretching.