[Bug][Editor & Gstool] Background images with frames don't animate

[GigaLem]

So I have a color changing background in the digital tileset (The one for Cyber Track zone) that has 32 smooth transitioning frames but when i tested it, It didn't animate, I'm sure it has something to do with the background and how its programmed but im not entirely sure

[namida]

They aren't meant to. If there's enough interest I can look at changing this, but it's not a bug, it's what's meant to happen.

[Colorful Arty]

Animated backgrounds could be cool. I'd be down for that.

[GigaLem]

for example lik someone's background could have twinkling stars

[Gronkling]

i dont want moving backgrounds, how distracting! non moving ones are bad enough

[ccexplore]

Isn't it what clear physics mode is for, if you don't want things like backgrounds?  Maybe I'm wrong and there isn't a way to just hide the background altogether.

Obviously one can go overboard and end up with something really annoying but that's a matter of restraint.  You can argue that if a player is willing to see a background image in first place, then animation at least makes it more obvious that something is background rather than getting confused with regular terrain.

Ultimately this feels no different than animated decorative objects that do not affect lemmings.  Not sure if those current exists in NL but animated background would not be all that different?

[Simon]

I want a solid color for bg, no fluff. Non-terrain decoration is a nuisance, whether animated or not. I want to tell the game permanently to hide bg and deco. Designers can then make gently animated bgs and I won't care.

NL doesn't yet offer this switch (show no-effect yes/no) because exit tops are still separate from exits. What an infuriating design burden. Everybody must see exit tops! Oh my, they happen to be the same subclass type flag as fake terrain. Let's force fake terrain down everybody's throats because that must be the lesser evil.

NL offers to hide backgrounds, but that option doesn't do entirely what I want.

Clear physics is important, but ugly. You clarify unclear tilesets with it, then go back to regular view.

-- Simon

[mobius]

Doesn't NL already have this? What about the moving bees from the honeycomb tileset??

for example lik someone's background could have twinkling stars

this is a nice idea.

[ccexplore]

Is it only for the styles that were based on Lemmings 1 and ONML that still have the separate exit tops?  While exact reasons likely lost to history, it is almost certainly the case that it was done that way in the original games solely as a storage-saving measure.  Even Lemmings 2 stopped doing that anymore.

Point being, if it is confined to a few specific NL styles, maybe we can special case it to treat the few known exit top objects differently just for those few styles.

[Simon]

Doesn't NL already have this?

"This" hides moving bgs, but not decoration.

I want "this" to hide everything no-effect.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Is it only for the styles that were based on Lemmings 1 and ONML that still have the separate exit tops?  While exact reasons likely lost to history, it is almost certainly the case that it was done that way in the original games solely as a storage-saving measure.  Even Lemmings 2 stopped doing that anymore.

Point being, if it is confined to a few specific NL styles, maybe we can special case it to treat the few known exit top objects differently just for those few styles.

Not specific, unfortunately.

NL has locked exits with a separate animation for tops and door. Implemented with exit tops. The game can't distinguish these tops from the fake terrain that causes endless horror.

-- Simon

[mobius]

I like how this topic was about backgrounds images animating and somehow it got turned into (another) rant against backgrounds in general and fake terrain and animating exit tops. That was sarcastic; as in; I don't like this.

Doesn't NL already have this?

"This" hides moving bgs, but not decoration.

I want "this" to hide everything no-effect.

-- Simon

By "this" I meant moving background images. I thought the bees were that, apparently they are not. Maybe they are just an object.

We know you hate backgrounds and anything that might distract gameplay (something very subjective)

[IchoTolot]

I agree with möbius here that turning every single discussion into a rant calling everything horrible that doesn't confirm to ones preferences is not the right way.

After thinking a bit I've come to a conclusion:

I myself am a bit too harsh to the hidden trap topic as well and should simply stick more to criticise and point out where they pop up with no additional rant to decrease the occurances of these. Lemmings is not and should not be the clean as a lab experience in every single aspect -- levels have their edges and corners that not everybody will like. Some tolerate them, some despise them and others like them.
This is the case with big levels, tiny levels, trap levels, levels with decorative objects, glider levels, Hard for Flopsy levels, precise levels.........endless list here. The only variance is that the percentages of people in the three grounps (like, neutral, dislike) shifts. Making the time easier for the ones that despise them (see clear physics) is a good way though. An additional switch to turn off the decorative objects should do the trick. Anymore ranting and raging after that I would call overreacting.
The clean lab....That's what I fear Lix singleplayer has already become with the removal of VRR, timers and the fact that still no music is there. A clean lab that has no roughness and edges and lacks in ambience therefor. Everything scaled down to a tiny clean level with no tolerance for decoration, surrondings and personal notes. Everything that's not 100% confirm with the basic core elements is gone -- this can be a very bad thing.

Maybe this statement should have gone in a new topic of it's own against rants and for living in peace with all the aspects of Lemming level design and celebrate diversity.

But now to the actual topic:

I can see animated backgrounds as a possible hassard, but as you already have the ability to turn them off I think allowing them is alright. If you don't like a background turn it off and I will do that as well to the ones that do not live in harmony with terrain and are just a major distraction.

I like the twinkling stars idea as well. But I would like turn sth off like Aty's rain effect he uses on some levels

[Nepster]

someone's background could have twinkling stars

I feel that namida's approach to this in his LemPlus Space style is more suitable for stars: Make them (moving) background objects with random start frame. This offers a lot more freedom than a fixed twinkling star background.

On the general topic: Already with the static backgrounds one has to be very careful to keep them in subdued colors and to properly distínguish them from actual terrain. I fear that this problems becomes even more prominent with animated backgrounds. Something like GigaLem's original suggestion might work, if using dark colors and if the color change isn't done too fast - one might even need more than 32 frames just to change between two colors. A lot of other ideas will likely only annoy and distract players.
Therefore I am not sure, if we need an extra code just for the few cases where one wants to have animated background. Especially as we have dedicated background images mainly to speed up rendering. But we won't have this advantage with animated backgrounds. So style designers might as well just add the backgrounds as movable background objects. ("Movable" is imporatant, so that people like me may play the level without the backgrounds!)
Once we move to the new file-type version of NeoLemmix, we will even be able to resize such objects. So level designers will no longer have to put lots of copies of this object in their level, but can just use one resized one.

By "this" I meant moving background images. I thought the bees were that, apparently they are not. Maybe they are just an object.

The bees are moving background objects, and can be hidden by the appropriate setting.

[GigaLem]

Sorry but I have to go off topic
Can't say I was pleasantly surprised of the reactions of this thread, but I will agree with Icho here.
If people can't have a edge that gives them their shine, it'll make Neolemmix & Co. really boring.
No one is perfect, no level is perfect, you shouldn't force perfection into a level, just stride for it.
Which is one of the reasons why I take so long to make level, I have to think about something Fresh, and unique.