[Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 Development Thread

[Simon]

Race with geoo on Tuesday, July 18 at 18:00 UTC through Shadow or maybe Highland, depending on what tribe Kieran prefers to see raced first.

-- Simon

[kieranmillar]

This is it! 135 levels later and I've finally replaced every level! This doesn't mean there aren't a few replacements due, but it does mean that for now, the entire game has been replaced!

This update is in time for tonight's stream. I recommend racing Shadow, as it's in the best place right now out of the 3 tribes that haven't been raced.

No update to NeoClassic yet. It's a pain to update but I'll do it at some point.

v21 changelog:

• New Tribe: Outdoor Tribe!
• Circus 3 Simply Red - Level redone to be a bit better.
• Circus 8 Wooly Jumper - Fix backroute.
• Classic 8 A Tight Squeeze - Fix Nepster's backroute, also made the timing less tight (again).
• Polar 7 Snow Drifts - Snow drifts are thinner to fix backroutes
• Polar 10 Grotty Grotto - Fix disgusting crawling backroute.
• Shadow 4 Shadowfall - Raised height of entrance platform and prevented precision ballooning.
• Shadow 7 The Rise and Fall of... - More Steel
• Shadow 8 Roadmenders - Minor terrain tweaks near the far bottom-left and bottom-right, and higher density of traps.
• Shadow 9 Taking the Back Route - Redone entrance area, release rate upped to max, Stomper replaced with Builder
• Shadow 10 Alley-Oop! - Level now much taller in places. Extra Floater provided.
• Sports 6 Ceausescu's Folly - Fix backroutes. (Why did I give this level this name, writing it out for this chagelog is a nightmare)

Minor TODO list

Classic 6 Pillar Thriller
Classic 9 Spiral Staircase
Go through latest Medieval and Highland feedback
Polar 3 Snow Drops
Polar 8 Forging Ahead

Major TODO list

Medieval 7 Castle Invaders
Space 6 Hull Breach
Polar 9 Santa's Big Dig

[Ryemanni]

It was a great stream! I'm glad I didn't miss it.

I had to make a quick pic which sums up the stream perfectly:

[kieranmillar]

That's amazing!

Anyway I've started fixing the broken levels. Shadow 8 Roadmenders seemed to particularly frustrate Simon and geoo so I've tried to focus on changing this one. Thoughts?

[Ryemanni]

It's definitely an improvement, but maybe add a bit more moons...?

[kieranmillar]

Here's the next update, very speedy release because I've got the week off work. Quite a hefty chunk of changes here, dealing with most things on my TODO lists. The Highland Tribe is now ready for the next stream. I've also updated NeoClassic.

v22 changelog:

• Classic 9 Spiral Stairs replaced with new level, Needs No Intro, a proper introductory level similar to the other tribes and moved to slot one.
• The original Classic 1 Needs No Intro now in slot 3 with a small tweak and a new name, Round the Bend.
• Classic 7 Pillar Thriller - Removed Digger and made adjustments to terrain to fix geoo's backroute.
• Highland 9 Fear of the Mountaineer - Shut down incorrect approaches pretty hard. It's possible that I've gone too far.
• Highland 10 Bullseye! - Some terrain tweaks
• Polar 3 Snow Drops replaced with new level, Lair of the Evil Snowman, and moved to slot 8
• Polar 7 Forging ahead, major terrain changes + extra miner. Slower release rate.
• Polar 9 Santa's Big Dig replaced with new level, Polar Opposites
• Shadow 1 Introducing: Shadow - Terrain adjustments to fix backroute
• Shadow 4 Shadowfall - Major terrain adjustments to fix backroute
• Shadow 5 Escape Tunnel - Removed "lit street lamp" object that made top of street lamp non-solid. This does not impact the solution in any way.
• Shadow 8 Roadmenders - Added Builder, Filler, a whole load more traps (because there wasn't enough already!), extended the length of the central water pit and got rid of some terrain you could bash your head on.
• Shadow 10 Alley-Oop! - Remove Floater, Filler and Bomber, add Stomper. Some minor terrain tweaks to make some necessary falls not quite so precise on height (level is also a little bit shorter as a result).
• Sports 6 Ceausescu's Folly - Added steel to fix backroutes, made level wider and added 2 Platformers to reduce precision.

Minor TODO list

Go through Medieval Tribe feedback

Major TODO list

Medieval 7 Castle Invaders
Space 6 Hull Breach
Shadow 9 Taking the Back Route

[Simon]

Thanks for the fast update! I'll download tomorrow before the next stream.

Race with Doctor Moon geoo through Highland tomorrow on Friday, July 21st, at 18:00 UTC. Streams were at:

twitch.tv/simonnaar
twitch.tv/geoouw
multitwitch.tv/simonnaar/geoouw

-- Simon

[kieranmillar]

What's this? Could it be.... even more levels! Surprise!

Yes the main content wasn't quite over yet. Attached to the front post you'll find a bonus download: Quest From Kieran 2: The Lost Tribe!

This is another set of 10 levels for the Egyptian Tribe that does not adhere to a strict restriction of thematic skills, instead you'll find a huge grab-bag of all your favourite skills, like Diver, Attractor, Pole Vaulter and lots and lots of Magic Carpets!

Throughout development of QFK2 I sometimes had a cool idea for a level, but it couldn't work with the skills I'd chosen for the Tribe, so the Lost Tribe is my opportunity to make these levels. The levels are save-all, with a single exception (it has Exploders), but as always you'll find the number you are allowed to lose for this level in the title of the level.

To prevent overwriting the regular QFK2 Egyptian Tribe, you might prefer to copy your entire L2 install so both packs can coexist side by side!

Note that this bonus tribe is overall a lot harder than the regular QFK2 content, which by the usual metric means it has tons of trivial exploits. Good luck! You'll need it.

Sadly this is now, for reals this time, the actually final Tribe.

[Leo]

When you are at the full speed of creativity, you can also consider making new practice levels.
And of course, you can make another full set of 120 levels. Having two new level sets for the game in 24 years is certainly not too much.
Also, who said levels must be super hard? Make one set of levels just for the fun. Let's call it 'Lemmings 2: Beginner's Edition'.

[kieranmillar]

While making 240 levels would be cool, I'm at risk of burning out on L2 right now and also have some commitment elsewhere that I want to get back to so this pack is enough for now. 130 levels is still quite a lot.

You're right that levels don't have to be super hard, I'd say that a significant portion of the entire pack is on the simpler side, about 30-40%-ish probably? Definitely has a large chunk of small and straightforward levels. The bonus pack just happens to be tougher overall, partially by accident, and partially because I wasn't deliberately making simpler levels to fit my plan with the rest of the Tribes having a smooth difficulty curve.

I had no plans to make new practice levels. They are not all that interesting anyway.

[Nepster]

Here are my solutions to the Outdoor tribe. On lots of levels I finished with only a few seconds on the clock. So could you please increase the time limits a bit? Otherwise a great tribe (except for the usual backroutes)
I will play the lost tribe and your other backroute-fixed levels soon.

More detailed feedback

1) Nice level, but the first planter requires lots of precision: On has to select the third-to-last lemming (which is already non-trivial) and then one has to assign the planter skill at the very end, so that the planter lemming falls down instead of turning around.
2) Nice, easy level, but the time limit is very harsh.
3) Not my favorite due to flinging. I placed the first miner rather precisely in order to have a few spare skills at the end.
4) Great level! But I don't need all planters...
5) Backroute number one.
6) Backroute number two.
7) Backroute number three.
8) Backroute number four, but not as glaring as the previous ones.
9) The flinging at the beginning requires lots of precision. And please give two more minutes: I finished with only 10 seconds left. Otherwise a nice level.
10) Great level, though I don't need all skills.

[kieranmillar]

Thanks Nepster! Looks like I'll need to make changes to every single Outdoor level. Well, I might leave 10 as is because your solution is OK, but I might still make some tweaks anyway.

P.S. Noticed a quite obvious backroute in the Lost Tribe level 6 Jumping the Shark, so hopefully I can get a fix for that posted up sometime tomorrow along with a load of other changes waiting in the pipeline. You might as well play the fixed version.

[kieranmillar]

I've been spending a lot of time on this lately on my time off, but updates from now on won't come quite so thick and fast. I'm looking to make some very significant changes to Highland in the future, as I will most likely be changing the skills the Tribe uses so there's still a lot of work to do there.

Version 23 has been released, alongside version 2 of the Lost Tribe (where the only change is a backroute fix to the 6th level Jumping the Shark):


v23 changelog:

• Highland 5 Can't Zig While Zagging - Add Hopper and steel up wall near exit.
• Highland 8 School of Hard Rocks - Terrain tweak to fix backroute.
• Medieval 4 Ye Olde Cavern - Tweaked layout at top of level to fix Nepster's backroute.
• Medieval 5 Going Full Circle - Extremely minor change to try and fix bizarre bug that randomly occured on stream. This has no impact on the solution.
• Medieval 6 The Castle Cellar - Steel in multiple places to fix backroutes.
• Outdoor 1 Introducing: Outdoor - Landscape tweaks to prevent less fun alternate solution.
• Outdoor 2 The Allotment - Moved rocky landscape to the left. Extra time.
• Outdoor 3 A Quick Fling - Added steel to prevent precise skill extension. Extra time.
• Outdoor 4 Rocks and Hard Places - Removed 2 Planters, added Jumper, and moved exit area to the left. Extra time.
• Outdoor 5 Mud Slinger - Steel near top-right corner to fix backroute. Extra time
• Outdoor 6 Rocky's Horror Show - More steel above the entrance + trying to shut down an otherwise inevitable future crawling backroute. Extra time.
• Outdoor 9 Life's Greater Porpoise - Numerous major landscape and layout changes, most notably removing what was an unnecessarily long platform section. Added Flame Thrower, removed Platformer, Planter and Scooper. Extra Time
• Polar 8 Lair of the Evil Snowman - Fixed the crawling route by just removing the damn Basher and swapping it for a Miner. Terrain adjsted to compensate.
• Polar 9 Polar Opposites - Terrain tweaks + 1 less Basher.
• Replaced Shadow 9 Taking the Back Route with new level Bungalow, and moved to position 2.
• Replaced Shadow 5 (was 4) Shadowfall with new level, Into the Hidden City.
• Replaced Space 6 Hull Breach with new level, Space Elevator, then swapped position with level 4, Gravity Chamber.

TODO list

Highland 1 Introducing: Highland
Highland 3 Bridge me up Scotty
Highland 4 What Bagpiper's Deserve
Highland 6 Highland Fling
Highland 7 Scaling Lem Nevis
Highland 9 Fear of the Mountaineer
Highland 10 Bullseye
Medieval 7 Castle Invaders (To be replaced)
Medieval 9 Medi-Upheaval
Medieval 10 Laying the Foundations
Outdoor 7 Life's Ups and Downs
Outdoor 8 Take a Hike
Outdoor 10 Triple Trouble (Maybe)

[Nepster]

I resolved everything except Highland, Outdoor and Shadow (unless I missed some other level that was updated, too).

Comments

Circus 8: First I tried to go through the bottom left pillar with a miner-jumper combination, but unfortunately a glitch prevents this: Even though there is still a whole solid line of pixels the jumper "jumps" through it and falls to the bottom. So I had to use the backstroke of the club-basher to go halfway through it before starting to mine.
Classic 1: Nice intro level.
Classic 3: This actually got worse: Before one could use the digger to build out of the digger hole, but now one has the correctly placed lemming from the crowd in the digger pit. Assignment-rage!
Classic 7: Now I can again save every lemming here...
Classic 9: Still plagued by a backroute...
Medieval 4: Only a minor change to my previous solution was necessary.
Medieval 6: Although I got the "intended" solution already, I now cannot solve the level anymore. I need the three archers and the two shimmiers to get the glider to the top of the box block. But then I can no longer turn him...
Polar 7: I liked the previous level better. There you had to start with two miners, while now one is totally sufficient.
Polar 8: Great level, although I only need one of the diggers.
Polar 9: Very nice level. But if I hadn't wasted the first stacker by misplacing it, I would have had one spare.
Space 4: Nice level, though fanning the jetpack is hard. I don't need any of the bazookas.
Sport 6: Another backroute...

[Nepster]

Here are screenshots for the updated levels of Shadow and the first half of Outdoor.

Comments

Outdoor 1: Better now.
Outdoor 2: I don't see a big difference between the old and the current version.
Outdoor 3: Basically the same solution as before, just with one flamethrower more.
Outdoor 4: Now with a slight adjustment for the last part.
Outdoor 5: A much better level now.
Outdoor 6: Likely still a backroute, because I don't need the right half at all.
Shadow 2: Nice, easy level.
Shadow 5: Very nice level. But there are two small problems in executing the solution: First of all the gap for the balloon is very narrow. Secondly one has to place the two bombs very precisely, so that the two fillers allow the lemmings to step out of the hole. With a thrid filler, this would be a lot easier.
Shadow 8: Great level!
Shadow 9: This feels like another backroute, even though I cannot think of another approach.
Shadow 10: I really don't know whether this is intended or not, given the two skills that I have left over.