Original Lemmings: 100%ing

[Hypotenuse]

So last night as my insomnia prevented me from shutting my eyes I got an idea (and of course put it into action immediately). I decided to try to 100% as much of the original Lemmings as was possible (note: in Lemmini). Obviously some levels can't be aced (tailor made for blockers, for example). I am currently continuing to pursue this insanity, and I just saved 100% on upside-down world (hardest doable one yet in my opinion). I thought I'd go ahead and list off some of my favorites (highlights) that I've tackled thus far.

Fun:
Not as Complicated as it Looks
Patience
Worra Lorra Lemmings

Tricky:
Lemming Drops
Menacing
One Way Digging to Freedom
Tightrope City (I still can't believe this worked)
Cascade
Island of the Wicker People

Taxing:
If at First...
Watch out...Traps
Lend a Helping Hand
The Prison
Livin on the Edge
Upside Down World (!!!)
(That's where I am now, I'll keep this list updated, but thus far those are the ones I'm most proud of)

Notable non-100%s:
Ozone friendly Lemmings (cleared with 3 bombers, pretty sure that's well known though)
Luvly Jubly (cleared with 5 bombers, I had previously always used 6+)
From the boundary line (I can't remember and didn't save this replay but it was at least 90%)

Levels I couldn't 100% but bet someone has:
Compression Method 1 (with the Lemmini version - no steel punching glitch)
Every Lemming for Himself (ok this I really doubt but maybe)

Anyways, I will now continue this fun adventure. (And yes I do have my few favorite replays saved, if anyone was curious.) Just thought this would be a fun bit to share with the Lemmings world.

[namida]

There's a list over on the Challenges subforum of levels that can't be 100%ed:

Fun 3: 47/50
Fun 6: 48/50
Fun 18: 65/70
Tricky 15: 7/10
Tricky 16: 46/50
Tricky 17: 48/50
Tricky 18: 9/10
Tricky 23: 79/80
Taxing 7: 79/80
Taxing 19: 65/70
Taxing 27: 77/80
Taxing 28: 70/80
Mayhem 5: 76/80
Mayhem 10: 73/75
Mayhem 19: 47/50
Mayhem 26: 76/80
Mayhem 29: 78/80

These are based off the DOS version, though. I'd imagine many of the results will be the same on Lemmini (since Lemmini uses the Win95 version's levels, which are identical to the DOS versions), though there are some cases (such as Compression Method 1, as you mention) that won't be doable on Lemmini, and possibly some that can that aren't possible under DOS.

There'll be more differences in the case of eg. ports that use the Amiga versions of levels (SuperLemmini, NeoLemmix).

[Hypotenuse]

Ah ok, thanks! I just wrapped up taxing. I must admit I was particularly proud of acing "A Tribute to MC Escher" and "Mary Poppins Land." I also aced "Triple Trouble" using only 9 builders...a personal record, but I'm guessing that's probably not a first. I'm still kind of in awe that my Upside-Down World solution worked, and I have absolutely no clue how that would've been possible on DOS (without the precision of Lemmini). But now I can't wait to try to find a way to crack "Save Me" with only two casualties that sounds absolutely bananas lmao.

[Proxima]

The "What skills do you need for 100%?" challenge has a record of 5 builders for Taxing 26 (Triple Trouble). I would guess this uses steel digging glitches. For most challenges, although the original posts announcing records often mentioned whether they used glitches, we didn't take the trouble of keeping a separate note of the best result possible without glitches.

Anyhow, congratulations on finding so many of these 100% solutions for yourself (particularly Mary Poppins' Land, which was thought to be impossible for years before ccexplore cracked it).

[Proxima]

Anyhow, here's a NeoLemmix replay of Taxing 26 100% with 8 builders, no glitches.

[namida]

Most of the "DOS" results were actually achieved in Lemmix. This is considered acceptable because Lemmix mimics DOS behaviour perfectly, glitches included (not to be confused with NeoLemmix, which is not even close to DOS mechanics). This allows for finer-grained control, such as assigning while paused, manual frame advancing (and even rewinding), etc.

[LemSteven]

But now I can't wait to try to find a way to crack "Save Me" with only two casualties that sounds absolutely bananas lmao.

I'm pretty sure the Lose 2 solution to "Save Me" requires steel glitches.  It involves building left from the start, and to do that you need to dig through the left edge of the steel to get to a lower starting point.  I want to say the best possible score without glitches is Lose 3, but on my attempt at it the crowd got slightly too bunched up and a couple of lemmings ended up leaking before I could get those last two blockers placed in the end.  I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I'm too lazy to try refining the solution right now.

A couple of the other DOS results also required glitches, most notably "The Boiler Room" and "Pillars of Hercules".  The best glitch-free scores for these levels are Lose 1 and Lose 4, respectively.

[ccexplore]

(since Lemmini uses the Win95 version's levels, which are identical to the DOS versions)

I'm sure you're right, but people have actually checked that they are in fact identical including things like missing water (compared to eg. Amiga), or how DOS have easier stats on certain levels like in Steel Mines of Kessel?

I'm pretty sure the Lose 2 solution to "Save Me" requires steel glitches.  It involves building left from the start, and to do that you need to dig through the left edge of the steel to get to a lower starting point.

The funny thing about that one is that in DOS, you can't stretch your builders going left as much as you can going right.  But that may not be the case for Lemmini (I never played it).  I seem to recall that in versions like Mac where the stretching is equal in both directions, you can in fact build left on that level without having to dig down the left edge of the steel (which is actually pointless in many versions simply because of the presence of water that's also missing in DOS version, though probably doesn't apply to Lemmini version?).

That being said, building left is just one part of it, so it's still not clear whether you'd have enough builders left over to also deal with turning the freed right-facing blocker you would inevitably have on the starting platform, given that without steel glitches you'd also have to place the blocker on an extra build brick just for him to be freeable.

Anyway, challenge solutions tend to be particularly sensitive to the details of game physics.  Even a glitch-free solution might not work out in Lemmini due to minor timing or pixel differences (eg. in position/shapes of bash/mine strokes).  And that's saying nothing about any unique glitches in Lemmini.  This is why I always insist on keeping separate statistics for each version when it comes to challenge-style solutions.

The lose-1 solution for "From the Boundary Line" on DOS does rely on a trick/borderline glitch that allows a climber to go in sync with a basher (he'll keep climbing the edge of the in-progress basher tunnel, then the basher's next stroke free the climber without him hitting tunnel ceiling and turn around, and the cycle continues).  If that trick doesn't work in Lemmini you'll likely lose 1 more.

"POOR WEE CREATURES" I seem to recall also relies on a (different) climber glitch for DOS's lose-10 solution.

[Nepster]

The funny thing about that one is that in DOS, you can't stretch your builders going left as much as you can going right.  But that may not be the case for Lemmini (I never played it).  I seem to recall that in versions like Mac where the stretching is equal in both directions, you can in fact build left on that level without having to dig down the left edge of the steel (which is actually pointless in many versions simply because of the presence of water that's also missing in DOS version, though probably doesn't apply to Lemmini version?).

If I remember correctly, builders do not reach as far in Lemmini as they do in DOS/Lemmix because they require three pixels overlay with the terrain at the starting position. So DOS/Lemmix allows stretching builder farther than Lemmini in either direction.

[mobius]

The funny thing about that one is that in DOS, you can't stretch your builders going left as much as you can going right.  But that may not be the case for Lemmini (I never played it).  I seem to recall that in versions like Mac where the stretching is equal in both directions, you can in fact build left on that level without having to dig down the left edge of the steel (which is actually pointless in many versions simply because of the presence of water that's also missing in DOS version, though probably doesn't apply to Lemmini version?).

If I remember correctly, builders do not reach as far in Lemmini as they do in DOS/Lemmix because they require three pixels overlay with the terrain at the starting position. So DOS/Lemmix allows stretching builder farther than Lemmini in either direction.

This is correct. I'm pretty sure because of this, even one builder does not reach quite as far as one in DOS. This is in both directions.

[namida]

I'm sure you're right, but people have actually checked that they are in fact identical including things like missing water (compared to eg. Amiga), or how DOS have easier stats on certain levels like in Steel Mines of Kessel?

I haven't checked that they're byte-for-byte identical, but at a quick glance they appear the same. Certainly have the missing water and 80 lemmings instead of 100 (even though WinLemm has no issue with levels that have 100 lemmings - though it can't go much higher than that, IIRC the limit was 114 or something?).

[DoubleU]

Only 17 impossible 100%ers? Some of those results I'd need to see to believe.

[namida]

Only 17 impossible 100%ers? Some of those results I'd need to see to believe.

Some do rely on glitches, in some cases very significant ones. Ages ago, there was a list of 20 so-called "imperfect" levels. Three of these (Compression Method 1, Mary Poppins Land; I'm not sure what the third one is) have since been found to be 100%able by using glitches that weren't known at that time. In many cases, levels that were on that list and remain (as far as is known) impossible to 100% have nonetheless had improvements to the save records via similar reasons (eg. From The Boundary Line).

[Proxima]

Three of these (Compression Method 1, Mary Poppins Land; I'm not sure what the third one is) have since been found to be 100%able by using glitches that weren't known at that time.

The Boiler Room. By the way, Mary Poppins' Land does not use a glitch, only some really clever exploitation of builder mechanics.

[ccexplore]

Lemmix replays probably exist somewhere either on this forum or on Mindless's file archive for all 3 levels mentioned.  Compression Method 1 uses steel glitches.  Boiler Room uses the sliding glitch to trick the game into moving the entire crowd up and through the exit platform, without having to bomb it.  And Mary Poppins' is completely glitch-free.  It's just a matter of using your builders the right way to set up something thick enough and tall enough to turn around lemmings thus containing them.  It actually only takes like 6 or 7 builders to do that, and you have like 4 floaters to handle any lemmings (only 1 or 2) that overtook the builders before they finish, and for any builders who can't turn themselves around via building (only 2 if I recall).

If there are any other levels you want to see proof, just list them here and someone can probably point you to a relevant replay for Lemmix.  Keep in mind that some like Cascade 100% was known long before this forum (or even older incarnations thereof) ever existed.