What NeoLemmix options do you use? Let's cull the other ones!

[Nepster]

Regarding the Cheat key in particular - I remember that I removed it once in the past, only for it to be requested that I re-add it (which I did). Are we sure it should be removed then?

Yes, we are. It was me who requested the readdition, and I still use it. But given that I am the only one who does, this hotkey doesn't nearly get enough usage overall to be kept.

Regarding the option "Don't Replay After Backwards Frameskip", I forgot to post the results of a discussion with möbius in chat:
This option should be kept, but changed a little bit: Only on backwards frameskips, the replay should be cancelled. But on restarting the level, the replay should play normally. Some posts a few months ago, that state that möbius prefers cancelling replays even on restarting a level, are outdated and should be ignored.

[namida]

^ What you describe here for that option is already the intended behaviour. So if that's not what's happening, it's a bug, and I will try to remember to look into it before V10.13.16's release.

[mobius]

at some point in here the athlete info displayed in the menu bar was discussed.

It seems as there is still room in the menu bar; I suggest replacing this info to go next to the lemming status indicator (on the far left). That removes the need for this hotkey and then the lemming status indicator never has to be covered up. I'd also prefer this way because currently when an athlete or permanent skill lemming is highlighted it says "athlete" or etc instead of "faller/walker" etc which can be a hassle in certain situations.

[namida]

There is only enough room to display both at once in all reasonable cases, if we were to replace the text descriptions with graphical icons. I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, though.

[mobius]

Minimap obsolete:
Previously there was talk about culling the minimap. I can't find that thread, so sorry if I say something that's totally not correct. I was opposed to it at the time (as I used the minimap extensively). But now with the advent of the ZOOM feature (which is very nice!) the minimap has become sort of obsolete. I would be perfectly okay with culling the minimap now, as it no longer serves its major function and has several problems:

-Since it's gotten several "updates" IMO it's gotten worse; it no longer displays the old full standard length of a level.
-I don't like the "high-def" minimap at all. I don't think it's necessary or helps anything and it sounds like it causes lag for some people.
-I can't display levels that are taller than the old standard.
-It can't display the entire level; that was the whole point of it in the first place. As already stated; zoom takes care of this so it's not needed for that anymore.
-It takes up space in the menu bar that could be used for other things.
-From all the discussion I remember I was one of the very few people who used or cared about the minimap at all. Several people (Raymanni in IRC once I think?) stating they never even look at it.

at some point in here the athlete info displayed in the menu bar was discussed.

It seems as there is still room in the menu bar; I suggest replacing this info to go next to the lemming status indicator (on the far left). That removes the need for this hotkey and then the lemming status indicator never has to be covered up. I'd also prefer this way because currently when an athlete or permanent skill lemming is highlighted it says "athlete" or etc instead of "faller/walker" etc which can be a hassle in certain situations.

There is only enough room to display both at once in all reasonable cases, if we were to replace the text descriptions with graphical icons. I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, though.

^is this idea still being considered? I like icons opposed to words and they take up less room.

[Nepster]

I am open for the suggestion to remove the minimap, but won't do that without a proper discussion.

-I don't like the "high-def" minimap at all. I don't think it's necessary or helps anything and it sounds like it causes lag for some people.

Then disable it in the options menu. There is an option "High-quality minimap".

at some point in here the athlete info displayed in the menu bar was discussed.

It seems as there is still room in the menu bar; I suggest replacing this info to go next to the lemming status indicator (on the far left). That removes the need for this hotkey and then the lemming status indicator never has to be covered up. I'd also prefer this way because currently when an athlete or permanent skill lemming is highlighted it says "athlete" or etc instead of "faller/walker" etc which can be a hassle in certain situations.

There is only enough room to display both at once in all reasonable cases, if we were to replace the text descriptions with graphical icons. I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, though.

^is this idea still being considered? I like icons opposed to words and they take up less room.

In this form? No. Instead I prefer small icons hovering over the head of the lemming, as that's far closer to the view focus of the player. Currently such icons are only displayed in clear-physics mode when hovering over a lemming and always for zombies when hovering over them.
I am not opposed to display the icons more often, but wanted to test the current set-up first, as it will interfere less with the usual game-play.

[nin10doadict]

I think the minimap is certainly worth discussing. If removed, it would open up space to display other things that might be more helpful. While I think the minimap is cute, it's true that I hardly ever look at it. That said, for really big levels, I do find it useful to click on the minimap to quickly jump to other parts of the level without having to zoom out. If I am looking at the bottom left and want to look at the top right, the minimap can get me there with a few quick clicks. If I zoom out fully then zoom back in, I'm left looking at the center of the level. I'll have to scroll manually over to the top right from there, which is slower.

[Simon]

If I zoom out fully then zoom back in, I'm left looking at the center of the level. I'll have to scroll manually over to the top right from there, which is slower.

The answer to this is to zoom into the mouse cursor instead of zooming into the center of the screen. (I.e., before and after the zoom, the mouse cursor points to the same point on the land.)

If I am looking at the bottom left and want to look at the top right

With hold-to-scroll on right mouse button, click and shove the mouse towards the top-right. This is the absolute fastest.

In general, scrolling features have issues whenever they're slower than minimap-scrolling. Minimap-scrolling has moderate speed, but it cannot be fast because it requires a precise click far away from the action, violating Fitts's Law, and then the mouse must move back into the game area.

-- Simon

[mobius]

If I zoom out fully then zoom back in, I'm left looking at the center of the level. I'll have to scroll manually over to the top right from there, which is slower.

The answer to this is to zoom into the mouse cursor instead of zooming into the center of the screen. (I.e., before and after the zoom, the mouse cursor points to the same point on the land.)

^Yes; this is what needs to happen.

[IchoTolot]

I still want the minimap, as I use it regularly to keep tack on other portions of the map, but I agree that it could be made more conveniant for vertical levels.

[Dullstar]

I like the suggestion of having zoom go to the mouse cursor rather than the center of the screen. I would prefer to see the minimap remain, however. I don't like the idea of having to zoom out in order to scroll large distances, especially considering the only other reason I would ever zoom out on a level are to get a higher resolution overview of the level than what the minimap provides.

As for scrolling:
With minimap:
Click where you want the screen.
With zooming:
Zoom out.
Click where you want the screen once you've zoomed out far enough.
Zoom back in.

Zooming in place of the minimap changes a 1 step process to a 3 step process.

Furthermore, losing the minimap impedes the ability to have a basic idea what is happening to offscreen lemmings. I don't zoom out while I'm actively playing the level (rather than just looking at the level, maybe thinking about how to solve it) because then things start getting annoyingly small to look at. The minimap is quite helpful for having an idea of what the lemmings I'm NOT currently focused on are doing. Are they contained? Are there some approaching a cliff that will need attention soon? Is there a trap offscreen killing lemmings? Is an offscreen digger/miner/basher about to finish? I don't like zooming out on whatever I'm trying to focus on - things get too small to comfortably look at.

I do concede that the minimap has issues with some sizes of levels that I'm not entirely sure how to fix. Certainly, as much of the level as possible should be displayed on it.



A quick clarification of my specific usage case:

The minimap is used for:
1) Scrolling - I prefer using the minimap to scroll if one is available rather than zooming out/zooming back in.
2) Situational Awareness - I like to be on the current default zoom while focusing on specific lemmings. I use the minimap to have an idea of what offscreen lemmings are currently doing in order to determine if my attention is needed elsewhere. This behavior is further reinforced by another game I play, Starcraft, where the minimap is extremely important for determining where your attention is needed.

For these purposes, I like to have the minimap in low-res mode. Part of this is because I'm used to it since it's been like that for a long time. The other part of it is because its generally brighter colors are more easily read - for what I use the minimap for, I need to be able to clearly see where the terrain is and where the lemmings are. If high res minimap used the same colors as the low res one (i.e. one color for terrain and one color for lemmings) I'd be more likely to use it. As it stands now the high res minimap is blurry and somewhat difficult to read.

I use zooming out for overviews and route planning, when I'm trying to take in the whole level and decide what to do. I don't usually use zoom in (further than default, anyway) in sprite based games except for getting a closer look at the artwork.

[Nepster]

The answer to this is to zoom into the mouse cursor instead of zooming into the center of the screen. (I.e., before and after the zoom, the mouse cursor points to the same point on the land.)

I have added this to my to-do list.

[mobius]

well I just realized I was wrong about something anyways: you cannot always zoom out and see the whole level!!! On very large levels (perhaps this depends on length verses height?) you can't "zoom out all the way" so-to speak. So in some cases there is no way to see the entire level, not with zoom or mini-map. This seems very silly to me. As in the original L1 you could always see the whole level in the mini-map. In the end; it's maybe not a major deal and I'm not sure I'm even asking for this... Just something to think about, idk, maybe down the road, and issue to address...