[NeoLemmix] Lemmings Squared (in development)

nin10doadict · January 29, 2017, 04:40:34 AM

I tried posting this earlier but I think I goofed it up because the post fell into the void. That aside...
Many people like posting packs with hard levels, but I get stumped by them easily. So I'm working on a pack that's fairly easy overall (though this demo has quite a few hard levels in it as well). It has 5 ratings and will probably have about 100 levels when it's finished. Right now there are 47 levels. Here's what I know about the compatibility...

I know it doesn't work with version 1.43. It uses a few tilesets from Lemmings 2, so it probably won't work with 1.47 either.
My goal is to make a pack that players of any skill level can enjoy.

Feedback is welcome and appreciated. Have fun!

IchoTolot · January 29, 2017, 10:50:36 AM

Sounds fun!

Will test it out when I find some free time for it.

nin10doadict · January 29, 2017, 11:16:58 PM

I just found a break in Brutal 8 that lets you save a skill and a few extra lemmings. I'll fix it for the next demo, but until then, you can try to find it yourself.

Gronkling · January 30, 2017, 12:17:52 AM

Here's my replays for all the levels (with talismans) apart from Scary 2 which is much harder than everything else
This pack is mixed quality, some of the levels are not that fun, Scary 9 being the biggest example, but there's a lot of good too such as Scary 5!
Also there's a weird invisible exit on Tough 7 that you can just walk to without doing anything

nin10doadict · January 30, 2017, 12:37:20 AM

Wow, you tore that apart pretty fast. I guess that's not surprising, considering what caliber of levels you're making.

You even found one of the two troll shortcuts. (EDIT: Actually you found them both. You are way too good at this game.

) It's the only way to get the talisman for those levels, hee hee. I'll be removing those in the final version because they're dumb.
There are a few silly designs here. Scary 9 isn't hard or even all that interesting; I might want to scrap it or at least do something different with it. "Build Lem's Legend" originally just had the letters, which made it super-tedious and boring.

You even found some different solutions than I did, but I'm kinda surprised that you'd struggle with Scary 2. I thought "Cross-town traffic" was way harder. Then again, a lot of these levels were originally for Lemmini, so that made them a lot harder (with the exception of Fall down go boom which got changed a lot.)
EDIT: Holy moly looking at those replays shows me that some of my levels are totally broken... Or like all of them... MUST FIX

namida · January 30, 2017, 04:38:33 AM

I noticed this has a lot of levels for a demo. To avoid too much spoiling, I just played the first two in each rank.

Simple 1 - Nice level to start with.

Simple 2 - Merely solving the level is very simple... so I went for 100%.

Moderate 1 - Nice! I actually had to think for a second on how to solve this before I realised it.
Moderate 2 - Also very nice.

Tough 1 - I think this one was easier than the Moderate levels, tbh.
Tough 2 - I think I found a backroute on this one.

Scary 1 - This is definitely a backroute.
Scary 2 - Nice level! Not sure if it's a backroute; I didn't use the swimmers, but it doesn't feel like there is any way to use them usefully.

nin10doadict · January 30, 2017, 04:47:02 AM

Yeah, Gronkling basically ripped the whole thing to shreds. Backroutes everywhere. So much for me thinking that I was clever.

I think I've fixed most of it. I'm definitely limiting how many more tough levels will be in the pack, because I don't want to have to keep going through cycles of fixing everything that's broken. Besides, the pack is meant to be easy overall.
And yes, the swimmers are red herrings in Scary 2. Totally useless.
EDIT: My God, just when I think I can get away with at least one or two that were solid. Nope. Every single one of my "puzzles" is broken, bar one. That's really discouraging.

I understand that you don't want to spoil too much, but after seeing that nearly all of the levels I thought were good interesting challenges were just broken, then I'm sorta glad I did show all the levels I had.

namida · January 30, 2017, 05:20:35 AM

A lot of pack designers - myself included - will get a small group of players to test their pack privately before releasing it. You might've noticed my recent packs (Lemmings Plus III onwards) tend to have very few backroutes when they're released, but this is exactly why - because I have them privately tested before release. My newest pack (Lemmings Plus Omega II), which hasn't got a full public release yet (but there is a 9 level demo), the first test version I sent out, nearly 30 levels (out of about 50) had backroutes. Backroutes are not something to be discouraged by; it's just part of creating lemmings levels.

IchoTolot · January 30, 2017, 07:26:38 AM

You will also get better in seeing + blocking possible backroutes while creating level over the time. With every new backroute you encounter and fix, you will slowly be more able to see them in advance in the future.

Gronkling · January 30, 2017, 09:16:53 AM

aw aw dont be sad that i didn't find the right way the first time, a lot of my levels are being DESTROYED!!!!!! in beta testing, but im happy because i know in the final release i can be more sure that my levels will be OK!

Gronkling · January 30, 2017, 05:40:08 PM

And I did scary 2, this one's the best level in the demo ^_^

Nepster · January 30, 2017, 05:52:15 PM

There are some very nice levels in your pack, but I encountered two levels with traps hidden in terrain. Usually such levels are less well-received (search a bit in the forum and you will find several rants about this).

Unfortunately I forgot to save replays when playing your demo levels. As you already plan to fix them, I will wait for the second version before playing them again and sending you replays.

Quote from: nin10doadict on January 30, 2017, 04:47:02 AM
EDIT: My God, just when I think I can get away with at least one or two that were solid. Nope. Every single one of my "puzzles" is broken, bar one. That's really discouraging.

Don't worry about that. Out of my 111 levels in NepsterLems, I believe only three or four of them never had any backroute-fixes (for puzzle levels) or other improvements (for open-ended levels).

nin10doadict · January 31, 2017, 04:48:31 AM

Thanks for the encouragement! I was just getting worked up; some other stresses in my life weren't helping. I just need to take it easy with this and not get all messed up in the head.

Hopefully with practice I'll get better at seeing ways my tricks can be circumvented. I've updated a variety of the levels to try to iron out backroutes (more steel! It needs more steel!

), but I'll save showing that off for later. One thing I do want to share is the updated Scary 9, which puts much greater limits on your skills and how many you have to save. It may still be broken, but I think this makes it a lot more interesting and a fair bit harder. If it isn't broken it will probably move up in rating.

nin10doadict · February 07, 2017, 01:46:31 AM

Progress has reached 60/100 levels built so far, so I think it's time for an update. I've decided on a name for the pack (Lemmings Squared) and have built a few levels around this theme. Included is an updated version of one of the previously revealed levels that hopefully fixes the backroutes. Also included is a picture of what might be the hardest level I've made so far, if it isn't broken. I'll probably post another update when I reach 70 levels total.

nin10doadict · February 19, 2017, 04:38:02 AM

Up to 70 levels now. Not revealing anything special here, but progress is also ongoing to spruce up the decorations so the levels look less like I'm trying to make them all fit in a GameBoy cartridge.