Revenge of the Lemmings 3.0

[Wafflem]

There are two solutions around the Cheapo problem:
1. When you open the level and it says "Select Style", click the drop down arrow, and select "NeoLemmix - Cheapo Styles".
2. (more convenient solution IMO): Just put all the graphic files in the NeoLemmix folder instead and open the level as normal.

Looking through the ROTL, the only easy repeat levels in the game are:
Picnic 1-10, 13, 15, 17-20, 22-25, 27-28, 30
Hootenanny 5

For me, I'm in favor of removing Picnic 1-9 (the tutorial levels), 19 ("Hunting Season", repeat of "Wish you had them?" Carnage 4 and 20 "Food For the Gods", repeat of Carnage 27 "Finding a Safe Place to Stay"). If we remove Picnic 6 which is "Play Bridge", we could replace that with the original version of Play Bridge (this version has 20 builders).

I'm thinking that if you want to keep Ups and Downs for its talisman, perhaps you can replace "The Endless Steps" (currently Hootenanny 17) with that? IMO "The endless steps" is too easy with instant bombers.

Regarding ccexplore's level, did you put the x_vgaspec0.dat in the NeoLemmix folder?

Also, a level I'd like to be brought back: "Conveyor Bolt" by Ellischant.

EDIT: Found another Picnic-worthy level: Blowtorches are Fun by Mossaic91.
EDIT 2: Turns out I put the wrong level for Tumble Weed's Skill Your Lemmings (it's And Out Come the Bashers...). Here is the correct version.

[Crane]

"Hunting Season" is a repeat of "Wish you had them?", the latter of which is notable for having no builders and looking almost impossible at first glance.  Admittedly I selected some repeat levels to help fill up Picnic but which gave few clues as to how to solve their harder versions (in this case, "Hunting Season" and Picnic 28: "Singularity").

[Wafflem]

In IRC, möbius and I have agreed to add two of the levels I've suggested: The Great Migration '06 by Chmera as the very first level in ROTL (obviously the '06 must be removed), and Mind the Gap by TOG.

Pain and Armageddon are currently lacking in special graphics levels. Frenzy could count as well depending on what we do with the Land of Nightmares.

I have bundled an NXP of seven special graphics levels to see which can be put in those two to three ranks:
1. geoo's VGASPEC conversion of Insane Steve's Cheapo version of the Mon0lith
2. geoo's Supaplex Tricks...
3. geoo's Through the Thicket (actually, I think this VGASPEC's graphics come from the Outdoor Tribe)
4-7. Proxima's Repton levels.

NOTE: The Repton levels are Cheapo levels.

[Crane]

So I think my level "Deep Freeze" has made it into the next iteration of Revenge of the Lemmings, but we're not quite sure what rating it should go in.  I've attached the latest version here, which requires saving 77 out of 80 lemmings and adds some extra decoration to give it a feeling of coldness.  Any rating suggestions would be greatly appreciated, just don't let the fact that it's a 10-of-everything level lull you into a false sense of security!

I've also attached my latest version of "JAILBREAK!" which requires saving 96 out of 100 - the solution that saves 96 is not really any more difficult than saving 95.

Note that the levels use music tracks in Revenge of the Lemmings; "Deep Freeze" uses "1gbridge.mod" and "JAILBREAK!" uses "2aspace2.mod".

[Crane]

I made some possible patches to "Spiralling Snowstorm" (Armageddon 3) to patch a couple of backroutes I found - there's some icicles hanging from the top of the screen so you can no longer use some building trickery to get across the pit (you could get across the pit in 3 builders, with the 2nd builder hitting his head on the top of the screen), and the container in the bottom right is now smaller, which makes life more difficult for Climbers that aren't Floaters (a backroute has Climbers go that way).

Note that I'm assuming namida's solution is the intended solution, since it uses all of the tools and all of the level.  I left a message for Clam with a link to this post to see if he's okay with it.

NOTE: The music for this level file is not set, but is meant to be the Christmas mix file: christmas.mod

[mobius]

In IRC, möbius and I have agreed to add two of the levels I've suggested: The Great Migration '06 by Chmera as the very first level in ROTL (obviously the '06 must be removed), and Mind the Gap by TOG.

Pain and Armageddon are currently lacking in special graphics levels. Frenzy could count as well depending on what we do with the Land of Nightmares.

I have bundled an NXP of seven special graphics levels to see which can be put in those two to three ranks:
1. geoo's VGASPEC conversion of Insane Steve's Cheapo version of the Mon0lith
2. geoo's Supaplex Tricks...
3. geoo's Through the Thicket (actually, I think this VGASPEC's graphics come from the Outdoor Tribe)
4-7. Proxima's Repton levels.

NOTE: The Repton levels are Cheapo levels.

I messed around with The Mon0lith before the last update and ultimately decided against including it. I might take a moment and play this level again and judge it again. It's quite a demanding level. It is however, quite interesting and difficult. [this level's featured in the Lix pack where it's easier because of runners and the entire levels quite a bit larger]
If we include any more levels [let alone custom graphic ones] this would be my first choice and it would go perfectly in Armageddon.

@Crane. IMO Deep Freeze should go in either Devious or Frenzy. But then my judgements don't often match the consensus. I'll put it in Frenzy for now.
This level has a similar idea to "Split Complementaries" but more compact and straightforward but sort of more puzzling. I think.

[Crane]

Well, I suppose Deep Freeze is straightforward in that it's clear what you have to do, but unlike Split Complementaries, everyone has to be doing work somewhere (e.g. the 'safe' lemmings can't get to the exit by themselves), then there's the multitasking and finding ways to save enough lemmings, given you have to use Blockers.  There is a similar idea though, with only one out of many trapdoors having a safe landing.

[bulletride]

If you are still taking suggestions I would like to add my level Fall Guy to the mix.

[Crane]

One slight problem with that is that there's a level called Fall Guy in Revenge of the Lemmings already by t3tesla... Frenzy 9.

[mobius]

If you are still taking suggestions I would like to add my level Fall Guy to the mix.

I'd love to include this level, but eventually I'll need a replay for it because I've never managed to solve it (after a very long time). I did see a few other people's solutions but they all abused climb-through-wall glitches.

One slight problem with that is that there's a level called Fall Guy in Revenge of the Lemmings already by t3tesla... Frenzy 9.

Actually this level was re titled because the original was an ONML title. So I'll just find another title for this level.

Also; about Split complimentary; the reason I mentioned that level was because I'm not sure it's in the right place of difficulty. Maybe Carnage is too high?

[Crane]

Personally I don't think Split Complementaries is that difficult.  It looks scary at first glance, but once you save the first lemming and start building, it mostly just falls into place.  Most players will know to use multiple lemmings as well to save them faster.  I might drop it down a notch to Pain personally.

[chaos_defrost]

Personally I don't think Split Complementaries is that difficult.  It looks scary at first glance, but once you save the first lemming and start building, it mostly just falls into place.  Most players will know to use multiple lemmings as well to save them faster.  I might drop it down a notch to Pain personally.

I remember watching namida's playthrough and being surprised this level was this far in the pack unedited. Dropping it a tier is fine, reducing builders (50->20?) to where it's actually a mild challenge in the place it's in is also fine. Depends on the other levels you want to include/replace.

[Crane]

Just tried to complete it with 20 builders, and it's a LOT harder, as you have to make more sacrifices.  I've attached my solution that uses only 20 builders and saves 78% - with some adjustments I could save 80%.  That would make it more Carnage-like, but removes a lot of freedom for the player to solve it in their own way (although the save requirement could be a talisman rather than a prerequisite so some freedom is kept).

There is one minor change to Split Complementaries, and that's the hanging ball on the upper right of the level.  It's where the secret level trigger is, as you have no reason to build to it in a normal solution, and it looks innocuous enough that most people would dismiss it as a piece of scenery.

[Crane]

Sorry, here's "JAILBREAK!" again - somehow a random barrel got inserted in the last copy.  It didn't affect the solution, but certainly looked weird.

[mobius]

I like Having Split Complimentary as-is but with a 20 builder talisman. The more optional challenges the better. I'll move it to Pain or Frenzy Though. I'd like to keep levels in order based on their standard difficulty not the difficulty of their talisman. That's what the bronze, silver, gold is for.