Lemmings Challenges

[guest]

Has anyone keep similar statistics on ONML levels?

I haven't played most of the ONML levels, unless you count the first 12 "tame" levels or so (I did those during the process of capturing the ONML music), and I think "tubular lemmings" from I forgot which rating.

I'm in particular interested in knowing which ONML levels currently do not have 100% solutions, and how many lost in the current best solution.

[Proxima]

I don't know of any attempt to keep statistics for the ONML levels. There are certainly lots more than on the first Lemmings where no 100% solution is known, and probably lots more where it's impossible.

[guest]

Crazy 1, 3, 8*, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20

Take Crazy 12 off the list, I just got 100% on the PC version.  Fairly straightforward actually.

[Proxima]

I'm not saying it isn't; I just don't have time right at the moment to look through them all and see which ones I can get 100% on. (I will have a go at this soon, though!)

[Shvegait]

Gah! I almost managed Crazy 18, but it winds up being ONE pixel off from what I need... Hmm, maybe there's another way, seems like there should be one...

Yes, I'm almost possible there's another way, working on it now...

Edit: Got it! Turned out to be rather straightforward.

Btw, my method that didn't work was going over the top... but the angle of the bubbles and the maximum height limit for builders makes it just barely impossible, even though you have just the right amount of tools to pull it off. &#A0;:-(

[guest]

I'm not saying it isn't; I just don't have time right at the moment to look through them all and see which ones I can get 100% on

OK I see, so when you said "for which the best known solution does not save 100%", I guess what you meant was "for which my best known solution...".  

Thanks anyhow, the list is useful enough, thanks, though I must say it's slightly shocking how many non-100% levels there are.  Though I did realize as I browse thru some of the levels that the ONML levels are far less generous in the ways of "extra" skills, so I guess the higher non-100% is expected.

[LemSteven]

There are several more levels that can be taken off of the list. &#A0;Since there are so many, I'll just list the best scores that I know of (100% if not listed):
Crazy 1: Save 96% (48/50)
Crazy 3: Save 96% (48/50)
Crazy 10: Save 98% (79/80)
Crazy 11: Save 50% (40/80)
Crazy 14: Save 96% (48/50)
Crazy 19: Save 98% (49/50)
Wild 5: Save 93% (75/80)
Wild 12: Save 98% (49/50)
Wild 13: Save 96% (77/80)
Wild 15: Save 94% (47/50)*
Wild 18: Save 97% (78/80)
Wicked 1: Save 98% (49/50)
Wicked 4: Save 98% (49/50)
Wicked 6: Save 98% (79/80)
Wicked 7: Save 93% (75/80)
Wicked 8: Save 92% (46/50)
Wicked 9: Save 96% (48/50)
Wicked 10: Save 96% (48/50)
Wicked 12: Save 97% (78/80)
Wicked 15: Save 92% (46/50)
Wicked 16: Save 83% (5/6)
Wicked 20: Save 98% (69/70)
Havoc 10: Save 52% (12/21)*
Havoc 13: Save 98% (79/80)
Havoc 15: Save 90% (9/10)
Havoc 17: Save 98% (79/80)*
Havoc 20: Save 88% (53/60)*

A "*" next to a score means that I've heard of it being done, but I haven't confirmed it.

This makes a total of 105 lemmings lost overall in ONML, many more than the 66 in the original.

Note that some of these scores take advantage of bugs in the PC version.

[Proxima]

OK I see, so when you said "for which the best known solution does not save 100%", I guess what you meant was "for which my best known solution...".  

No; what I meant was "the best-known solution"; that should teach me to be careful about punctuation even on forums! In other words, the best-known solution to the level, not specifically the best known solution to the problem of saving as many as possible.

Anyway, that was just a starting point; LemSteven's list obviously supersedes this, except that he needs to tell us which solutions depend on bugs and what the best solution is that is guaranteed on any version. In particular, are there any solutions where 100% is only possible because of a bug?

[guest]

Havoc 10: Save 52% (12/21)*
Havoc 13: Save 98% (79/80)
Havoc 15: Save 90% (9/10)
Havoc 17: Save 98% (79/80)*
Havoc 20: Save 88% (53/60)*

A "*" next to a score means that I've heard of it being done, but I haven't confirmed it.

All right, after an eternity, more profanities than I care to recount, and raising my blood pressure by like 20, I finally managed (ie. confirmed) this on the PC version:

Havoc 10:  Save 66% (14/21).

Here are the screenshots:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/havoc10_A.png
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/havoc10_B.png
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/havoc10_C.png
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/havoc10_D.png

Be warn that this pushes the method to its extreme, so you cannot get a higher score unless you find a better way.  The bridge must be built at the very edge as shown or you'll lose one more.  The biggest havoc though is what you need to do to achieve the setup in the first screenshot--you must lose only 1 lemming to the traps.

Good luck, and don't be surprised if you only get 13/21 on your first successful try.  It took me hours and several 13/21s before I finally manage this.

--------------

Note to non-PC users:  this solution requires the ability to "instantaneously" change the release rate.  On the PC it is possible because you can change the release rate while the game is paused.  If this is not possible on your version of ONML, you might be forced to lose 1 or 2 more.

[guest]

This makes a total of 105 lemmings lost overall in ONML, many more than the 66 in the original.

Well actually, one main reason the number is so much higher is because you are forced to lose 40 in Crazy 11.  If you discount that "anomaly" it's actually comparable to the 66.

[Proxima]

Still, that's over only 80 levels (since Tame hardly counts) as opposed to 120.

[LemSteven]

Anyway, that was just a starting point; LemSteven's list obviously supersedes this, except that he needs to tell us which solutions depend on bugs and what the best solution is that is guaranteed on any version. In particular, are there any solutions where 100% is only possible because of a bug?

I'm trying to remember which levels require bugs, myself.  I know that the 98% solution on Wicked 1 exploits a bug.  My personal 98% solution on Wicked 20 also exploits a bug, but it may be possible to get 98% on that level via another method.

I'm not sure, but I think the 100% solution for Havoc 2 exploits a bug.  Unless there is a better solution, the two diggers must be placed in a certain spot, and they go through a small amount of steel.  The 94% solution on Wild 15 also requires digging through a small amount of steel.

I believe that all of the others can be done without bugs, although some of them use backroutes, and a few are annoyingly hard to pull off.

[guest]

I do want to emphasize that just because it uses a bug doesn't necessarily mean it won't work on non-PC versions, and at the same time, just because it doesn't use any bugs doesn't guarantee it'd work on every version either.

The former because some bugs may be common to all versions, the latter because sometimes subtle timing and terrain differences can alter the outcome.  I've definitely encountered both of these with some of the Lemmings 1 levels for example.  And Ahribar can definitely tell you all about Mac's Mayhem 26 when it comes to terrain differences.

[guest]

Crazy 19: Save 98% (49/50)

You can take that off the list now, I just got 100% on that level ("DON'T PANIC!") on the PC.  Not that bad actually.  It could work on other versions too depending on terrain layout.

Because it's nothing on the order of, say, Havoc 10, I don't feel sharing screenshots are necessary, although I do have them and can e-mail them.  I'll instead just give 2 hints:

1) It's a lower route solution.
2) Use your builders wisely.

[Proxima]

That's true; and also, digging through the edge of steel is not necessarily a bug, but a terrain difference -- the object is not placed at the exact same location as the visible metal area. (Our investigations on Taxing 22 certainly confirm this!)