Lemmings Challenges

[ccexplore]

Unfortunately, the basher I used to remove the blocker went the wrong way. &#A0;As a result, he bashed through a chain and was eventually lost. &#A0;I ended up saving 98% instead of 100%, but I know that 100% is possible using that method (assuming my basher goes the right way).

It seems a little strange to me that you still end up freeing the blocker even though your basher went the wrong way? :: Just don't have the right picture in my mind for this.

[LemSteven]

It seems a little strange to me that you still end up freeing the blocker even though your basher went the wrong way? :: Just don't have the right picture in my mind for this.

Now that I think of it, I used a digger to free the blocker on that particular attempt, then I made him bash in order to stop digging. &#A0;Had he gone right, he would have bashed air and stopped. &#A0;Instead, he went left, and was eventually lost as a result.

Anyway, I've now confirmed this after an hour of frustration:

Wicked 13: &#A0;Save 100% with 10 builders B)

This is extremely difficult to pull off, as it requires pixel-perfect precision in several places. &#A0;I needed 1 climber, 1 blocker, 10 builders, 4 bashers, and 1 digger.

[ccexplore]

2 blockers, 2 bashers, 11 builders, 2 diggers
<snip>
I'm now going to try the Mac version and see.

Confirmed on Mac.  Solution plays out completely identically to PC version.

Now to see what I can do with LemSteven's 10 "digger" solution.  In particular whether 4 bashers are really needed.

[LemSteven]

Now to see what I can do with LemSteven's 10 "digger" solution. &#A0;In particular whether 4 bashers are really needed.

Oops. &#A0;I meant 10 builders. Sorry about that (Edited earlier post).

I believe that I could have done the level with 3 bashers, btw.  I used an extra one early in the level in order to make things easier later on.

[ccexplore]

Now to see what I can do with LemSteven's 10 "digger" solution.

But before that, I ended up making minor improvements to the 11-builder solution:

1 blocker, 3 bashers, 11 builders, 1 digger

So one more basher than before, but in total 1 less skill used.  I suppose I should confirm it on the Mac, but I figure the 10-builder solutions would be more interesting anyway, so maybe later on this if requested.

[ccexplore]

But before that, I ended up making minor improvements to the 11-builder solution:

1 blocker, 3 bashers, 11 builders, 1 digger

So one more basher than before, but in total 1 less skill used. &#A0;I suppose I should confirm it on the Mac

Just to be clear, I did confirm the above on the PC, just not the Mac.

Now, onto 10 builders or less......

[ccexplore]

Turns out LemSteven's 10-builder solution is actually not too different from the 11-builder solution mentioned above.  Unfortunately, it does look like the 3 bashers, 1 digger and 1 climber are all needed.

So looks like time to move onto fewer than 10 builders, although such solutions likely will only work on the PC version if at all.  I guess I can verify the 10-builder solution on the Mac first though.

[ccexplore]

Ok, I now have evidence that you can save 100% on Wicked 13 with no more than 9 builders.

I said "evidence" because my attempt was screwed up in a number of places.  First, I used 2 more builders than intended, because I failed to build at the intended places (basically, the same frustration LemSteven went thru when confirm the 10-builder solution, except I didn't feel like starting over).  Second, at the beginning I accidentally lost one.  And I probably used more skills towards the end than really necessary (but fortunately there was enough).

Still, the solution idea definitely will work.  It is actually just the 10-builder solution with a different way to deal with the "ending".  No differences until after you got past the application of the Mayhem 12 glitch.

--------------------

As for the Mac, with great difficulty (it's very hard to do precision moves on it reliably), I managed to confirm the 10-builder solution.

Although earlier I said that the 9-builder solution is probably PC-specific, I'm beginning to think that might not necessarily be the case.  In particular, since the glitch for the builderless Tricky 9 seems to work to some extent on the Mac......

Still, I don't think I'm even going bother with the Mac until I actually confirm the 9-builder solution for real on the PC first.

[ccexplore]

I discovered that the builderless Tame 14 solution I used on the PC doesn't seem to work on the Mac.  But rather than a game-mechanical difference, I think the reason is more of a terrain difference.

But that doesn't mean there isn't another solution that could work.  I'll get to it when I have time.

I have now confirmed that you can save 100% with no builders on the Mac version of Tame 14.

Basically I just used the Tame 20 glitch, although setting it up properly on Tame 14 can sometimes be a little less straightforward.

I actually think you can also have a builderless 100% solution that uses no glitches, although that would be very difficult to execute, so I'm going to leave that alone for a while.

[ccexplore]

Wild 15: &#A0;sadly, it looks like 48/50 might not be achievable on the Mac. &#A0;Why? &#A0;Well, recall how I said on the PC, there are 3 different ways you can handle the final obstacle and get 47/50.

Well, on the Mac, it turns out that two of the ways doesn't work. &#A0;The only method that works is the glitch-free, "guest-inspired" method. &#A0;And no one has yet successfully adapted that solution to 48/50 at this point, so until then

Then is now!  I finally found a way to adapt the "guest-inspired" 47/50 solution for 48/50, and so I have now confirmed on the Mac that it's possible to achieve 48/50 on Wild 15.  (The solution should also work on the PC.)

Although the "guest-inspired" 47/50 is glitch-free, I need to use the bomberless Mayhem 2 glitch for the 48/50.  Previous experience with adapting the solution to 48/50 suggests that you probably have to use that glitch to get a working solution.  In any case it certainly makes life much easier.

[ccexplore]

Still, I don't think I'm even going bother with the Mac until I actually confirm the 9-builder solution for real on the PC first.

Ok, 9-builder solution for Wicked 13 finally confirmed on PC.  I got lucky with the LemSteven half of the solution, that went without a hitch.

My guess is that you won't have enough skills to lower the number of builders further down, but feel free to prove otherwise.

I'll leave the Mac version for some other weekend, although I think it has a good chance of working on that version also, though more difficult.

[guest]

Oooo...On the genesis it is possible to do any of the "We All Fall Down" levels with only 3 diggers. Take that as a challenge. If you want to rip your hair out because of genesis handling.......try doing Mayhem 30 (Lemmings' Ark) without the basher.

[geoo]

Oooo...On the genesis it is possible to do any of the "We All Fall Down" levels with only 3 diggers. Take that as a challenge. If you want to rip your hair out because of genesis handling.......try doing Mayhem 30 (Lemmings' Ark) without the basher.

Well, I did Lemmings' Ark without the basher in the remake for Cheapo by Isu (StyleTrial I - level 30); in fact, I found this backdoor before I found the intended solution.
Due to some sketching I noticed that it is also possible for the Genesis, but there you have to be precise by one pixel, for Cheapo there were two pixels working.

[ccexplore]

Oooo...On the genesis it is possible to do any of the "We All Fall Down" levels with only 3 diggers. Take that as a challenge.

Good job! But why 3?

On the Mac I just confirmed that you can do it with only 2 diggers, I would think that the same is true on the Genesis as well.

Interestingly (though not too surprising, given previous experience), it doesn't work on the PC version.  I'll try other versions later.

[ccexplore]

Good job! But why 3?

Interestingly, I just tried the Genesis version and found that its behavior is not quite the same as the Mac version, and then since you can't change the RR while pausing in the Genesis version, it looks like you really do need 3 diggers there.

I think I should revisit the DOS version again actually......