Lemmings Challenges

[ccexplore]

Well, I guess I wasn't counting Crazy 11 since you still end up using the same number of skills.

But I'm wrong anyway, I forgotten that you can also apply the glitch in Fun 8 for a 100% solution that uses only 3 skills and no blockers, so I guess that's also a difference too.

Still, Wild 9 is probably the level where the glitch's effect is so dramatic, since it renders the level almost trivial.

[LemSteven]

Speaking of Crazy 11, I have confirmed that the level is indeed possible losing only one lemming (1/2 -- 50%).

As for Wild 9, the only difficulty in the nuke glitch solution comes from timing.  The relatively high release rate means you have a very small time window in which you can nuke the level and end up passing.  If you nuke too early, the first lemming blows up before exiting, but you can't nuke after the second lemming appears, or you'll only save 50%.

Although harder to execute correctly, I find the nuke glitch solution to be much less tedious than the regular solution, which requires nearly two minutes of simply building bridges.  The nuke glitch solution takes less than ten seconds!

[ccexplore]

The 100% Taxing 6 solution is not possible on the Mac.<snip>  So basically any solution for the level involving bashing through the steel-terrain boundary will not work on the Mac.

That being said, much of the 100% Taxing 6 solution can be adapted to work on the Mac, resulting in a 98% solution instead of 100% (ie. you lose 1).  Basically you substitute the non-working steel-destruction glitch with a different steel-destruction glitch that still works on the Mac.

[ccexplore]

Finally confirmed this:

Taxing 10: &#A0;100% with no more than 3 builders

This is almost glitch-free. &#A0;I did use the Wild-15 glitch/trick, although just like Tame 20, you don't really need it, I just feel more comfortable using that glitch/trick to get what I needed done.

This solution is in jeopardy on the Mac version.  At the very least, it turns out that when using the Wild-15 glitch in conjunction with the actual trick that enables the solution, what results will not work on the Mac--the Wild-15 glitch causes some problems with the "actual trick".  (Sorry I can't be more specific.)

I did mention though that in theory you don't need the Wild-15 glitch, and I think by not letting the Wild-15 glitch get involved, the "actual trick" that does the real work could still work on the Mac.  But at the very least, this makes the 3-builder Taxing 10 solution super-tricky on the Mac.  I'm not going to touch this one for a while.

[ccexplore]

Another challenge from ONML:

Wicked 3: &#A0;save 100% using only 3 builders and 2 diggers, nothing else. &#A0;So no climbers and not even bashers.

This is obviously not glitch-free, although the glitch used is quite well-known well before I ever posted here.

For the same reason that the 77/80, no-build-west Mayhem 29 challenge is affected, on the Mac you need 4 builders rather than 3 for this Wicked 3 challenge.  Still don't need climbers and bashers though, and the solution remains almost identical.

[ccexplore]

It was tough not posting here for almost a day, but now that I got one of Ahribar's requested MIDIs out of the way, back to my "new favorite toy" I come.  

So, the news:

Wild 15:  sadly, it looks like 48/50 might not be achievable on the Mac.  Why?  Well, recall how I said on the PC, there are 3 different ways you can handle the final obstacle and get 47/50.

Well, on the Mac, it turns out that two of the ways doesn't work.  The only method that works is the glitch-free, "guest-inspired" method.  And no one has yet successfully adapted that solution to 48/50 at this point, so until then the best you can do on the Mac is 47/50 (which I still haven't confirmed on the Mac btw).

You might think that it's the steel area at the final obstacle that's causing the problems.  But actually, the failures are not caused by the steel.  For details, e-mail or PM me a solution and I'll tell you exactly how and why it fails on the Mac.

=========================

Havoc 10:  17/21 confirmed on the Mac.  Though interestingly, I needed to modify the solution to get it to work on the Mac.  In fact, for a while I was almost going to give up and declare a 16/21 for the Mac version.

What happens is, on the PC version, if you have lemming #1 mine at a certain location and make #2 a floater as soon as he appears, it's possible that when #2 catches up with #1, #1 has mined down just enough to allow #2 to past thru the first trap without triggering it.

But on the Mac version, possibly due to subtle differences in the high-resolution terrain-removal mask for the miner, that doesn't work; I can't get #2 to not trigger the trap.

Fortunately, what save the day is another PC/Mac difference.  Recall how, when I discussed the PC solution, I said using a digger is not suitable for carrying out the blocker's role for the miner glitch?  Well, it turns out on the Mac version, unlike the PC version, you can also use a digger to carry out the miner glitch, besides using the exploder as in the PC version.  The digger will turn immediately into a faller without removing any terrain.

This in turn leaves an exploder unused, which you can then use later in the solution to release the crowd.  This in turn frees up a digger you can use in the beginning.  I then used it by having #1 dig 4 times before mining.  With that, #2 is able to get past the first trap without triggering it.

[ccexplore]

A few new ONML challenges:

Wild 3: save 100% using no blockers, no more than 6 builders.

I've only confirmed this on the Mac, but it's a glitch-free solution so it should work on the PC also.

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Wild 6: save 100% in under a minute using no more than 1 builder

I've confirmed this on both the PC and the Mac.  It's glitch-free, and really, not too challenging to figure out.
Truly a "quicky" challenge.  

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Wild 17: save 100% using no more than 2 builders

I've confirmed this on both the PC and the Mac, but it turns out slightly different solutions are needed on each version, mainly due to the difference in steel detection (and possibly the positioning of the steel areas differ slightly between the two versions).  On both versions it is not a glitch-free solution, although it uses glitches that are either well-known or I've already discussed explicitly.

I've yet to find a glitch-free way to save 100% using only 2 builders.

[LemSteven]

I found another level in which the Mayhem 12/Havoc 11 glitch works.

Wicked 13:  Save 100% with 12 builders.

This is the lowest number I've worked out so far without losing anybody.  It may be possible to lower the number some, though.  I may be able to get it down to 11, or even 10, with some slight alterations to my method.  I'll check it out this weekend.  I doubt that less than 10 will be possible, but feel free to prove me wrong.

If you're wondering why the number seems so high, it's because of those *&%@ chains.  I have to bash after every few bricks, or the builder will hit a chain and turn around.

[guest]

Mayhem 12/havoc 11/wicked 13......ah, I think I know what that is (does it invlove going through steel?). I found that glitch while playing one of Conway's levels. For some reason I didn't check the Lemmings/ONML levels to see if it could help. X_X

[ccexplore]

Wicked 13: &#A0;Save 100% with 12 builders.
<snip>
If you're wondering why the number seems so high, it's because of those *&%@ chains. &#A0;I have to bash after every few bricks, or the builder will hit a chain and turn around.

Good job!

However, you are not quite correct about the chains, as my improvement on your challenge shows:

Wicked 13:  save 100% with no more than 11 builders and no more than 2 bashers (no restrictions on other tools, though I can tell you no climbers nor floaters were used)

You might want to consider relaxing it to "no more than 3 bashers" first.  In my 2 bashers solution, the way I avoided the use of a certain basher is, while not exactly glitchy, still somewhat unusual.

I have only confirmed on the PC so far, I'll do the Mac version later tonight.  Whether it works on the Mac version or not mostly depends on whether there are undesirable differences between the Mac's hi-res terrain and the PC/Amiga's low-res terrain.

As for 10 builders, that might be possible on the PC, but probably not on the Mac version.

[ccexplore]

However, you are not quite correct about the chains, as my improvement on your challenge shows:

Wicked 13: &#A0;save 100% with no more than 11 builders and no more than 2 bashers (no restrictions on other tools, though I can tell you no climbers nor floaters were used)

Actually, just to highlight how efficiently skill-wise you can deal with the chains, let me disclose the exact amount of skills used:

3 blockers, 11 builders, 2 bashers, 3 diggers

Though, now that I think of it, maybe 2 blockers is enough.  Anyhow.

[LemSteven]

However, you are not quite correct about the chains, as my improvement on your challenge shows:

Wicked 13: &#A0;save 100% with no more than 11 builders and no more than 2 bashers (no restrictions on other tools, though I can tell you no climbers nor floaters were used)

My idea for an 11-builder solution does use the chains to my advantage.  I was complaining because the chains got in the way of my original 12-builder solution.  If there were fewer chains, 10 builders would easily be possible.

Also, I'm surprised that you needed 3 blockers to achieve 11 builders.  My 12-builder solution used only one blocker.  Good job anyway, though.

[ccexplore]

Also, I'm surprised that you needed 3 blockers to achieve 11 builders. &#A0;My 12-builder solution used only one blocker. &#A0;Good job anyway, though.

So how many bashers did you use for your 12-builder solution?

I probably could get by with just 2 blockers, and so if I were to use 12-builders I could eliminate another blocker as well.

[LemSteven]

So how many bashers did you use for your 12-builder solution?

I probably could get by with just 2 blockers, and so if I were to use 12-builders I could eliminate another blocker as well.

I believe that I used all 5 bashers in my 12-builder solution. &#A0;Anyway, I did manage to achieve an 11-builder solution using only one blocker. &#A0;Unfortunately, the basher I used to remove the blocker went the wrong way. &#A0;As a result, he bashed through a chain and was eventually lost. &#A0;I ended up saving 98% instead of 100%, but I know that 100% is possible using that method (assuming my basher goes the right way).

I haven't had much luck with a 10-builder solution, unfortunately.  What I originally thought would be a 10-builder solution turned out to be an 11-builder solution.  I ended up having to use a builder in a place that I originally didn't think it would be necessary.

This doesn't mean that I am completely ruling out a 10-builder solution, though -- It may still be possible by some other method.

[ccexplore]

I probably could get by with just 2 blockers, and so if I were to use 12-builders I could eliminate another blocker as well.

I found that I can indeed eliminate not just the blocker, but one digger as well, so my 11-builder solution on the PC is actually doable with the following skills:

2 blockers, 2 bashers, 11 builders, 2 diggers

The change turns out to be just a matter of where to start building.

I'm now going to try the Mac version and see.