Lemmings Challenges

[Conway]

I honestly don't know how I managed to save 70 in Tricky 23. I've just reread the solution I sent to LemSteven, and it simply won't work this time!

[LemSteven]

I just successfully got 76/80, but I don't know exactly what I did differently.  I know how to get the first two climbers to work (which saves 75), but I don't know exactly how to make them work after that.  The one extra lemming that I saved was sheer luck -- I got somebody placed correctly, but I don't know which one it was.

Another problem that I'm having is poor mouse-keyboard coordination.  I keep pausing and unpausing with the keyboard while I'm assigning skills with the mouse, but sometimes I click the mouse too soon or too late and the skill doesn't get assigned.

[guest]

I've just confirmed 78/80 on the PC version, with a screenshot available in e-mail.

Unfortunately, this is with the method that is supposed to get 79/80.    It is unclear at this point whether there is some subtle timing difference that will always cause at least one to "leak out" on the PC version with the method I'm using, or whether instead I screwed up on the attempt.  But it does seem to suggest that if 79/80 is possible on the PC version, it will involve some difficult pixel-precision for certain key players.  For example, the basher might need to bash the wall starting as close to it as possible (ie. right before it would've turned around).

I'll definitely try some more to see if 79/80 can be confirmed on the PC.  But I think I'd like a rest for now.

[guest]

I've just confirmed 78/80 on the PC version, with a screenshot available in e-mail.

Unfortunately, this is with the method that is supposed to get 79/80. &#A0;

The method does work! B) I finally managed to confirm 79/80 on the PC version.

A screenshot is available, though it doesn't reveal much (I was rather excited and almost forgotten to do the screenshot, so cut me some slack.)  It does have enough to show that 79/80 will survive, but since I captured relatively late, it doesn't reveal at all the critical details.  Screenshot can be received in e-mail (guestlevels at the usual place).  I'm also willing to give hints and the like in e-mail to those who want to try for themselves on lose 3 and beyond.

As I was watching, at one point there was almost a leak.  And in fact for a moment it did leak, but fortunately the next stroke came just soon enough to unleak those 2.  (I'm sorry I'm trying to be deliberately unrevealing, I guess mostly for those who don't even know "lose 10" yet.)  Based on this observation, the conclusion is clear:  you have to bash as close to the wall as possible.  One pixel off can be enough to make the difference between lose 1 and lose 3.

So this is definitely (pun intended) "tricky" no doubt, indeed I think this is probably harder to execute than the 100% on Mary Poppin's Land.

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So as an update, the ultimate challenge has now gotten down to losing a total of 69 lemmings.

[LemSteven]

So as an update, the ultimate challenge has now gotten down to losing a total of 69 lemmings.

Update: &#A0;I just managed to save 77/80 on Taxing 27 - Call in the Bomb Squad. The solution requires all ten bridges as well as a perfectly timed bomber.

It is therefore possible to lose a total of only 68 lemmings.

[guest]

Wow, just 3 lost on that level, that's pretty neat.

On another note, I did some experiment with Mayhem 26, both with the SNES version and also with the DOS version.

The results indicate that it should be possible to lose just 4 on that level.  I'm not in any hurry to confirm it (especially since it should be fairly obvious what you need to do and how it might be achieved), but once it's confirmed, it'll bring the total down to 67.

[Note to non-DOS Lemmings users:  the DOS version of Lemmings is one of the few versions that gives you 20 builders in this level, rather than the standard 10 this level is supposed to come with.  So don't waste your time if your version gives you just 10 builders.]

[guest]

[Note to non-DOS Lemmings users: &#A0;the DOS version of Lemmings is one of the few versions that gives you 20 builders in this level, rather than the standard 10 this level is supposed to come with. &#A0;So don't waste your time if your version gives you just 10 builders.]

However, that said, I have just tested on the SNES and verified that even with just 10 builders, you can achieve lose 5.  Instead of using extra builds to delay, there is one key place where you can build just once to "seal up".  (That key build does need to be pixel-perfect however, due to the way builder collision is determined and some pesky overhead greenery.)  [Incidentally, you probably want to use this move for "lose 4" on the PC too.]  There's a little more to it than just that, but I'll leave the interested players to figure out for themselves.

When I have time I'll test it on the Amiga and PC versions and see what happens.  Unfortunately for the Mac, based on what Ahribar mentioned some time ago, there is a terrain difference in that version that results in what in effect is an extra, unintended obstacle.  So lose 5 is probably not possible in that version.

[guest]

Just a quick update that "lose 5" is verified possible on the Amiga version which has 10 builders.

I'll try to verify the PC version at some later time, but I'm not in a hurry since you can do better anyway using the extra builders in the PC version.  But it's still a somewhat interesting challenge in the PC version I guess, to limit yourself to just 10 builders and lose just 5.

[guest]

Update: &#A0;I just managed to save 77/80 on Taxing 27 - Call in the Bomb Squad.

Aha!  Although I haven't quite gotten to lose 3 yet, this is no longer so unbelievable now that I realize this is just a backroute.  B)

[And what a fine addition it would've made to Ahribar's "backroutes remake" set......]

[LemSteven]

The Lose 3 solution is tricky to pull off (comparable in difficulty to the 100% solution on Taxing 16). &#A0;You need one blocker/bomber and 3 bridges to hold the crowd, a bomber to lower the start of the main bridge (so that the builder doesn't hit his head), and a blocker to turn the lemmings around toward the exit.

Here are a few hints (highlight them to read):

1. &#A0;Stack 3 bridges on one of the stairs to keep anybody from going right.
2. &#A0;In order to start the main bridge as low as possible, time a bomber so that he goes off right after he begins to fall off the left edge of the ground (This is by far the hardest part of the solution, as the bomber must be timed exactly right).
3. &#A0;From the bomber's hole, build 6 bridges left, then block (the builder cannot hit his head on the ceiling or the solution will likely fail). &#A0;Use the last bridge to reach the exit.

[Benefactor]

are there any HIDDEN maps in any of the lemmings series?

[guest]

Well, we know there are none in the PC version of Lemmings and ONML, since you can use LemEdit to check the .dat files containing the levels.

Don't know about the other versions.  And let's not forget these games, including the original Lemmings, are ported to a ton of other systems, so who knows about those.

Mike would probably know about this.

[LemSteven]

I did some experiment with Mayhem 26, both with the SNES version and also with the DOS version.

The results indicate that it should be possible to lose just 4 on that level. &#A0;I'm not in any hurry to confirm it (especially since it should be fairly obvious what you need to do and how it might be achieved), but once it's confirmed, it'll bring the total down to 67.

[Note to non-DOS Lemmings users: &#A0;the DOS version of Lemmings is one of the few versions that gives you 20 builders in this level, rather than the standard 10 this level is supposed to come with. &#A0;So don't waste your time if your version gives you just 10 builders.]

I just replayed Mayhem 26, and I didn't see any way to lose 4 (it seems to me that you need two bombers to blast through one of the walls, unless "Guest" knows something that I don't).  I did get the total down to 67 on another level, though: I saved 96% (77/80) on Mayhem 29 -- Save Me.

This solution is confirmed in the PC version, but it exploits a bug allowing you to dig/bash through a small amount of steel.  It therefore will not work on any versions that don't allow this trick.

Hints:  If you've already saved 76/80, try bashing under one of the blockers near the entrance, either by using the "bash through the top of the steel" bug or by placing him on a bridge.  The lemmings must be spaced out in a way so that two of them are ahead of the others for those nasty builders/blockers at the end.

If you haven't figured out how to save 76/80 yet, there is a major hint near the bottom of this page:  http://www.kallex.de/lemmings/hints/imperfect-levels.html

Also, is anybody ever going to update that page?  We've already beaten many of the scores on it.

[guest]

I just replayed Mayhem 26, and I didn't see any way to lose 4 (it seems to me that you need two bombers to blast through one of the walls, unless "Guest" knows something that I don't).

I guess I indeed know something that you don't.  Let's see how best to hint this one......

Small hint:  ironically, one of the "training" levels have something somewhat related to this

Bigger hint:  (highlight to read)

Send two lemmings down after the first bombing, and set the one in front to block at a particular location very very near the second bombing location.  If done right something interesting will happen, and amazingly it works on quite a few versions (PC, Amiga, SNES I've checked).

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If this doesn't answer your question, maybe you're having trouble with another wall?  Although I didn't do the full route in the PC version to completion, I did verify that all the relevant bombings are doable.

[guest]

I should add that in the event you completely give up, I do have a DOSBox screenshot that spells out exactly what to do with that wall.