Lemmings Challenges

[ccexplore]

I haven't yet tried ccexplore's challenges for Fun 8 and 11, but I have a good idea as to what the solutions are.

Let me note that for Fun 8, at least the way I did it, the main challenge was in the precision required (mostly temporal and not spatial precision).  Still, if you find your last lemming not even reaching the edge of the exit object when times-up, you probably want to do it another way.

One interesting incentive for figuring out the Fun 8 challenge:  the moves are also used for my solutions to two other challenges, challenges of the "save as many as possible" kind.  (That said, only this Fun 8 challenge requires the precision part.)

[ccexplore]

Tame 20: &#A0;save 100% without builders<snip>

I suppose I should verify this for the Amiga at some point too. &#A0;Maybe this weekend.

I did verify that the two glitches involved also works on the Amiga.

However, shockingly, I also found the first game-mechanical difference between the PC/DOS and Amiga versions of ONML.  On the PC, the digger basically can still keep digging even if he's just off the edge (so that the only column of pixels he's taking out is the rightmost or leftmost of the 9 or so columns a digger takes out).  Whereas the Amiga version is less forgiving.  I don't know exactly what the Amiga version requires in order for the digger to continue digging instead of falling, but I've seen the digger fall even when he's hanging onto I think 3 (or is it 2?) columns of pixels.

For Tame 20, I think this difference is still okay, although this does mean I need to redo a solution specifically for the Amiga since my DOS one would not work out identically due to aforementioned difference.  But this could impact other levels, for example I've been thinking about a 2-builder solution for Tame 13, which I would much rather attempt on the Amiga where I could use savestates.  But the Amiga's less forgiving digger mechanics means 2-builder Tame-13 is likely impossible there.  

Fortunately, this difference for the most part doesn't affect any of my solutions to any of the other challenges thus far, since none of those solutions involve diggers digging so off-the-edge.  The only solution that might be of some concern is Mayhem 29, but there I'm quite certain the digging is close enough to the edge that it should still work on the Amiga (though I should verify it sooner or later).

[ccexplore]

Here's a challenge that apart from "guest", no one right now would believe possible:

Tricky 9:  100% without builders

This is actually the showcase example of the Mayhem 2 glitch.  In Mayhem 2 the use is much more subdued; here, the use is quite dramatic.

[Shvegait]

What an odd glitch! I wonder if it's a performance limitation (like a related issue with you-know-what). It is very strange nonetheless.

(I haven't saved 100%, just 93% so far (the minimum), but I see how it is possible without builders.)

I doubt I would have even tried looking for that glitch on Mayhem 2, but here you really have no choice...

[LemSteven]

I got ccexplore's challenges for both Fun 8 and 11 yesterday.  I'm back in school until Saturday, though, so I won't be able to try any more challenges until then.

I know of another "glitch" that saves builders on several more levels, including Mayhem 12 and Havoc 11.  I haven't yet worked either of them out to determine the minimum, but it's likely that Mayhem 12 can be done with about 6-7 builders, and Havoc 11 can be done with about 10-12 builders.  This glitch also saves a lot of time on both levels, so I wouldn't be surprised to see both of them done in under 2 minutes.

I'll have to try these next weekend and see what I can come up with.

[ccexplore]

Can you e-mail or PM me your solution to Fun 8 challenge?  Just want to see whether it's what I expected or whether you end up with something I overlooked.

[guest]

Here's a challenge that apart from "guest", no one right now would believe possible:

Tricky 9:  100% without builders

This is actually the showcase example of the Mayhem 2 glitch.  In Mayhem 2 the use is much more subdued; here, the use is quite dramatic.

Now that you've said that was possible, it might make it easier for people to figure out the glitch. I actually thought about using the glitch for mayhem 29 but there are some problems...
I should try tricky 9...I have a feeling it would look really crazy...

[ccexplore]

Now that you've said that was possible, it might make it easier for people to figure out the glitch.

I know, but eventually at some point I was going to create a "new glitch" set, with new levels not based on the originals, featuring the new glitches I've found anyway, but the fact is, Tricky 9 is about as good as it gets when it comes to this glitch, so I figure I might as well point that level out now.

[ccexplore]

I know of another "glitch" that saves builders on several more levels, including Mayhem 12 and Havoc 11.

Ah, useful glitch.  I can do Mayhem 12 now with 6 builders.  I forgot whether it was under 2 minutes or not, but under 2 minutes should definitely be no problem with an additional builder.

I'll work out Havoc 11 later.  10-12 builders seems a bit excessive, but maybe it's messier than I expected (Yes, I do see that the terrain is a bit less straightforward, but even so...)

[guest]

I saved 100% on tricky 9 with no builders...and...well...it just sort of looks like it defies logic.

[ccexplore]

I'll work out Havoc 11 later. &#A0;10-12 builders seems a bit excessive

I've now saved 100% on Havoc 11 with 8 builders.  It's rather annoying though because of the precision needed here and there.  Screenshots available upon request for those who can solve Mayhem 12 100% with 6 builders.

On my successful try, the clock reads 1-58 (probably close to going down to 1-57) when the last lemming exits, but I could definitely have released the crowd sooner, so the level should be solvable this way in under 2 minutes.

[Leviathan]

Does tricky 9 without builders involve getting trough the steel and creating a direct drop?

[ccexplore]

I'll answer you in PM.

[ccexplore]

Wicked 12: Save 97% (78/80)

Don't know why I didn't try this sooner.  Anyhow, new record:

Wicked 12: save 98% (79/80)

Believe it or not, this is a glitch-free solution.

It can be a little tricky to get it to work though, even after you have the right idea.  Besides some precision that's necessary, it seems that you have to do things in a very very specific way for this to work out the way you want.  Or maybe it's just coincidence that I could only get it to work out when doing it that certain way.

Anyway, anyone who thinks they have the right idea but couldn't seem to get the game to just cooperate, e-mail or PM me and I'll give you a tip that might help.  However, what qualifies as a "right idea" involves sending a screenshot of places where you need to be pixel-precise (truly at-that-spot-pixel-precise, as opposed to off-by-1-pixel-okay), not just explaining the idea in general.  Sorry for being vague, basically when I determine that you got to a certain point regarding this level I will give you the tip, which incidentally might or might not really help, since I don't really understand why it would make a difference in the first place.

Anyhow.  So let's see, I think the ultimate challenge for ONML has gotten down to 85 lost total, correct?

[Leviathan]

May I recall you that I found a solution mentioned above that cuts down lots of lost lemmings on "No problemming" ?

I don't know if that (maybe little lame) trick counts but it's a nice excuse to make the ONML losses more comparable to the original lemming's losses