Lemmings Challenges

[ccexplore]

You also asked for a solution to "Containing the flow", and implied that it was a Genesis level.

Actually, I think he was asking about the challenge solutions for Tricky 23.  

[Proxima]

Oh!

Well, I guess that would explain it.

[guest]

Not at all!  In fact, wow!  

You see, I saw from the beginning 2 approaches, and more recently (well, today) you inspired me the 3rd ("guest-inspired") approach, for 47/50.  The approaches differ in particular from how they attack the final obstacle (yep, 3 totally different ways, at least for 47/50!).

But I never quite found a working solution, even a 47/50 one, for the approach you took in you solution, despite being aware of the possibility.  So I'm actually a little impressed that you got it to work.  I can also see now why you need to wait so long in your solution.

Your approach is not what I consider "glitch-free" because of how you attack the final obstacle, and is in fact distinct from all my solutions, be it 47/50 or 48/50.  (Although your solution does contain some elements of my no-glitch, "guest-inspired" 47/50, despite handling the final obstacle completely differently.)

Anyway, it's too bad that the time limit makes your approach less favorable for 48/50.  Had it worked for 48/50, your solution would have the property of involving only 1 glitch, whereas mine uses 2.  (And you probably would've gotten 48/50 before I do.)

Uhhh...yea, it was hard. I probably can't even do it again.

Are you sure that there are 3 other completely different ways of getting past the final obstical? There only appear to be two ways to go: down, or sideways (through the silver thing with holes).

[guest]

Oh, you meant the whole solution.

[ccexplore]

Are you sure that there are 3 completely different ways of getting past the final obstical? There only appear to be two ways to go: <snip>

Absolutely!  Talk about the irony!  The one you didn't list is the one I called the "guest-inspired" solution!  

The fact that I described it as "glitch free" should hopefully give you an idea.  Also the fact that I mentioned it has similarities to your solution.  It is also a relatively hard one to pull off though, even though it's not as tight on the time limit.

[ccexplore]

Oh, you meant the whole solution.

Nope.  There are really 3 ways to handle the final obstacle, each leading to a working 47/50 solution.

Of course, this in turn forces you to handle the rest of the level a little differently for each solution, due to the limited amount of skills.

[LemSteven]

I have a couple of ideas of how to get 48/50 on Wild 15, but can't tell whether they will work or not yet because I don't have Lemmings installed on my college computer.

After staring at the Lemmings Solution picture, I'm pretty sure that I figured out an easy method to 47/50.

I won't have time to work it out next weekend because I'm traveling to see relatives (it's a holiday weekend in the US). &#A0;Maybe the weekend after that...

[ccexplore]

To make up for not saying anything about the new glitch/trick/whatever I used for my 48/50, I'll instead mention this, which I guess some people should know already anyway:

The wheel trap looks much bigger than its trigger area actually is.

I should also add that a no-glitch 48/50 solution (based on the "guest-inspired" 47/50) isn't totally ruled out, but still it is very unlikely to work and definitely not the easy way to go.

[guest]

I tried to find a way to save 48/50 using the digging thing I used first, but didn't get anything. I actually found a 47/50 solution that looks like it could be changed a little to save 48/50. That solution involved bashing through the silver-thingy-with-holes-in-it. It might be possible to save 49/50, but I'm not going to try it until I get 48/50.

[LemSteven]

The wheel trap looks much bigger than its trigger area actually is.

I didn't know that before because I have never lost any lemmings to that trap.  I was once told that it was a trap, and I knew to avoid it altogether.

Where exactly is the trigger area?

[ccexplore]

Where exactly is the trigger area?

I don't know exactly, but basically a bit left of the wheel's center.

[Proxima]

I know exactly because I've been making new styles using the old objects It's just left of the semicircle-on-top-of-a-rectangle object in front of the wheel.

[ccexplore]

Ahribar wrote:

Tame: pass all 20 levels with 100% using a total of 5 builders

I've verified on the PC and Amiga that it's possible to do the above using only a total of 4 builders.

Hard as it might be for people to believe, I've actually managed to lower the number yet again:

Tame 20:  save 100% without builders

This one uses 2 glitches that I've already used in other Lemmings challenge levels.  One I used in Wild 5 lose 3 solution, the other I used in the recent 48/50 solution of Wild 15.  Recall that both are relatively tame (no pun intended) tricks, for example they are far less weird than the miner glitch on Havoc 10.

I feel bad about not willing to reveal yet the trick I used for Wild 15, although it really only plays a very minor part in this Tame 20 solution (as well as the Wild 15 solution).  [In fact, I suspect you might even be able to get away with not use it for Tame 20.]  Just so people understand that glitches aren't that powerful, I'll note that all the glitches I have found and used so far involves actions of a single lemming, so in particular, the final path that the crowd takes to the exit is always perfectly non-glitchy (well, you can argue this point for the no-bomber Mayhem 2, but that's about it.)

I suppose I should verify this for the Amiga at some point too.  Maybe this weekend.

[ccexplore]

This one uses 2 glitches

Actually, I guess it's 3 glitches.  The glitch I neglected to count isn't a new glitch either, in fact it has been used in other people's level(s?) before I even came to the forums here.  Surprisingly though, I think this is the first time I've made use of it on a lemmings challenge.

Ironically, this glitch is probably more weird compared with the other 2 that I have counted in the last post.

[ccexplore]

A true subset of LemSteven's challenge's skillset will probably never yield 100%, but I did found something close enough that works for Taxing 9, "perseverence" (and of course also Fun 10). &#A0;Note that Taxing 9 requires 100% to pass.

Unfortunately, this requires the Wild 15 trick

Actually, now that I think of it, there are other, much more ordinary ways to do the level using the same skills as my unrevealable challenge.  That being said, my challenge does have one notable property, which I think none of those other ways (that I know of) have:

Every lemming ultimately ends up falling on the left side of the starting platform, no one ever goes any further right than that when they reach the bottom.

Of course, there are some obvious ways to do such a thing, which is why I have to tell you which skills are allowed for this to be a challenge.