Lemmings Challenges

[the guest]

Medieval 3 and Space 2 are both doable with 100%.
Since this thread calls "Lemmings Challenges" I challenge you to do that

Um, I challenge you to read before you post?  

It looks like it went to the 2nd-to-last page, but in the post where I first listed my Lem2 scores, I did mention Medieval 3 and Space 2 already.

I have to say, Space 2 is really tough.

Not really.  Except maybe on the Amiga [emulator], where time seems to go quite a bit faster, making it much more likely for you to run out of time if not careful.

Also, I found a neat backdoor for Outdoor 7 using none of the shimmiers, no floater and only 3 of the jumpers (and some of the other skills).

Maybe that is a nice challenge for you?

I'll take a look when I have the chance.

[geoo]

Oops...reading your post again now (I had read the complete thread. Admirable work you acieved. ) I know what was my abolutely stupid mistake: I read "notable" as "not able" (doable). X_X
Sorry. However, my solution for Space2 requires all skills (except the bomber of course) and pixel precision at some places.

I got L2 to work 3 days ago...old memories.

[ccexplore]

Just when you thought this is all but dead......

This challenge has only been verified on SNES Lemmings so far.  However, it doesn't use any tricks that isn't already present in at least the PC and the Amiga version, and I've checked that the steel areas appear to be located identically on the PC version (and I believe the Amiga too but I should re-check) as in the SNES version, so it should work on those versions too.  I'll verify them later in the future.  Time-wise, I have 28 seconds left on the clock on the SNES (and the crowd can be released a little sooner for more time left), and the SNES's game speed appears to be similar to the Amiga (and SNES also has 100 lemmings like the Amiga), so hopefully you shouldn't run out of time in any version.  (There are no radical changes with release rate so that's not an issue either.)

the challenge:

Mayhem 29:  lose 3 without building to the west from the starting platform

Although this doesn't break any record score-wise on the PC, this is noteworthy since for the first time, it allows for a lose-3 solution on other versions.  If you recall, the PC version lacks the water, and the lack of water is critical in enabling the currently known lose 3 route.

This new solution still requires digging through steel though (elsewhere, of course), which is one reason why it's not possible to combine the two different tricks on the PC to get lose 2 (the other being that I think you'd run out of builders anyhow).

Definitely a very tricky solution to conceive of, and somewhat tricky to execute as well.  To give you an idea, you need to have at least 4 builders + 1 digger left to handle the area near the exit (and it's probably not what you have in mind, whatever it is you're thinking  ).  This means you can only use a total of 9 builders to deal with the starting platform, since you need 1 builder to build to the column from the left edge of the top platform on the starting screen, and another builder to break the fall when you dig down from the column.

You need at least 7 builders (4 to the right then 3 to the left) to build to the top platform on the start screen.  You also need one builder in order to be able to free (via bashing) a blocker used to contain the crowd while you're building 4 times to the right from the starting platform.  I'll leave it to you to puzzle over how to deal with the crowd after that point with just 1 builder spare-able for the purpose, as well as what to do near the exit area that somehow allows you to use one less blocker than usual.  

[ccexplore]

Yet another challenge.  The score still stays the same though.

Mayhem 2:  lose 1 without using any bombers

This has been almost verified on the PC.  By "almost", I mean I have separately verified the "lose 1" and the "no bomber" parts, but I just haven't yet gotten a successful run with both together because, well, because I'm human.  But other than that it's practically as good as verified.  I've also verified the "no bomer" part on the SNES, and since the terrain is identical, it should also be doable on the SNES.  I haven't tried it on the Amiga, but previous experience indicates that, chances are very good you'll be able to do it there too.

Yes, a new glitch is involved.  No, not a totally cheap one, more like that miner glitch on Havoc 10 in terms of oddness.  Normally, I will disclose glitches used (after all, disclosure makes it easier for you to believe me, especially for something like this), but once in a while I do want to reserve some for future levels or what-not, so in this case, I unfortunately will not discuss the glitch for now.  (Don't worry, that'll change eventually.)  Perhaps the fact that it does not allow 100% might tell you something about it.

Happily, this completes my candidate list for my own Lemmings challenge pak (see the "Lemmings Re-Title-ing Challenge" thread).

[ccexplore]

Off top of my head, for Lemmings 1 I'm fairly positive Taxing 6 is the only one that's 100%-able on the PC but does not appear to work on the SNES (timing differences).

I stand corrected.  I've just got the same 100% solution to work on the SNES also.  Maybe I just screwed up on my previous attempts.

[LemSteven]

I've been working more on Wicked 6 in ONML recently. &#A0;Last night I just managed to save 98% without using any bombers, but I can't seem to save the miner from falling too far. &#A0;As I said before, this can be corrected with a single bridge built by a lemming that drops before the miner, but the builder goes over the exit, and more builders are needed to get the crowd turned around.

Unfortunately, my best left-side solution so far requires five bridges, and I'm left with only four at the end. This would only be enough if the lemmings were not so bunched up. &#A0;I can't seem to get ccexplore's blocker trick to work yet, but I may still need to tweak around with the initial starting position of the miner.

I also just got the 100% on Wild 12. &#A0;I noticed that it implemented a couple of bugs (most notably, the one-way wall).

Finally, I realized that I was incorrect earlier in this thread when answering Ahribar's question about Crazy 8. &#A0;It is actually possible to clear the water (tentacles) with just 2 builders, but the builders must both be placed at the last possible pixel. 100% is therefore easier than I thought it was, because there are enough builders to create and build out of a pit.

[ccexplore]

I can't seem to get ccexplore's blocker trick to work yet, but I may still need to tweak around with the initial starting position of the miner.

Yeah, in fact, it is the very need to get the correct initial starting position that forces me to reduce the left side down to 3 builders, because it takes all the rest to get a viable starting position.  And I made tons of sketches on this before I get an initial mining position that works.  Remember that the miner should already be standing at the very edge when he does his final strike, so that there are no more steps for him to walk down to.  Otherwise you'd end up with a permanent blocker.  Each time a miner strikes 2 steps are created, each being 2 pixels wide and 1 pixel down.

Maybe you'll have better luck with your other approach which does sound like it requires less builders.  I'm not sure what qualifies as "too bunched up" though.  I would think that the miner's tunnel should be long enough to minimize "bunching up", but then again, I've never tried your way.

In any case, 98% with no bombers is a pretty good start.  B) That's where I ended up at before the 100%.  Good luck!

I also just got the 100% on Wild 12. &#A0;I noticed that it implemented a couple of bugs (most notably, the one-way wall).

Good job!  Interesting too, it looks like that level has a couple of 100% solutions as well.  (Though not entirely surprising since I did remember having a builder left over in my solution I think.)  Mine goes completely underneath the one-way wall.  I'm not sure there's anything in my solution that I'd count as a bug though.

[guest]

I just read through most of this thread and here are a few things that might be useful:
1)Instead of timing a click right after unpausing the game, hold down the mouse button and then unpause.
2)The emulation speed in Dosbox can be slowed down a lot to make timing easier.
Also, where are the builders used in the tame levels? I remember going through the tame levels trying use the fewest builders and ended up using 4. The odd thing is, one of them was used on tame 14.

[guest]

Ohhh...level 20. I think I forgot to do that one when I went through the levels.

[ccexplore]

1)Instead of timing a click right after unpausing the game, hold down the mouse button and then unpause.

Oh wow, it works!  Thanks! B) (A little too late for me though?) Damn, that must be why everyone else seems to have an easier time with precision moves on Lemmings......)

2)The emulation speed in Dosbox can be slowed down a lot to make timing easier.

That is a little smack of cheating I think, especially since you can't do this in real DOS.  Your great tip #1 should make this mostly unnecessary anyhow.

[Shvegait]

Oh wow, it works! &#A0;Thanks! &#A0;(A little too late for me though?) Damn, that must be why everyone else seems to have an easier time with precision moves on Lemmings......)

 =8O

You learn something new every day! This should make some of those really annoying levels (and some of those challenges) quite a bit easier.

And, ccexplore, you pull off the craziest stunts in both Lemmings and Cheapo... you think everyone else seems to have an easier time with precision moves!?


I agree that slowing down DOSBox is cheating, even though it IS probably possible on some older machines. (You can slow down our old 386 with ctrl, alt and the minus key. It made most games stupidly easy, and I still think it was cheating then, but it was possible.)

[guest]

Oh wow, it works!  Thanks! B) (A little too late for me though?) Damn, that must be why everyone else seems to have an easier time with precision moves on Lemmings......)

You have to be careful with it though. Apparently it doesn't work unless the mouse is moved, or something like that.

[guest]

1)Instead of timing a click right after unpausing the game, hold down the mouse button and then unpause.

This was actually derived from a different, but very similar, trick. I couldn't think of much use for it at the time, but now it seems like it could make some levels less annoying. It would be especially useful when trying to click a lemming at the edge of a crowd. So here it is:
Pi)If the mouse button is held down, the next lemming that gets in the cursor will be selected.
This one doesn't work unless the mouse is moved between each use.

[guest]

And, ccexplore, you pull off the craziest stunts in both Lemmings and Cheapo... you think everyone else seems to have an easier time with precision moves!?

I agree, you can do some really crazy things.

[guest]

Mayhem 2:  lose 1 without using any bombers
[...]
Yes, a new glitch is involved.  No, not a totally cheap one, more like that miner glitch on Havoc 10 in terms of oddness.

It isn't exactly new, insane steve found it for the fun 6 challenge.