"Lemmings Redux": A "remake" of official games for NeoLemmix.

[Nepster]

Final Impediment still has the shortcut, but it's rather fiddly now.

EDIT: And a second solution...

[Nepster]

And three more solutions...

[Proxima]

Following discussion in IRC, I am considering this version of the level. The extra flamethrower is still there, and I've removed all the bashers and diggers.

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<Nepster> My biggest problem with a lot of the solutions is that they aren't elegant and just fiddling around.

This change would remove most of the "fiddling around" solutions and hopefully enforce a particular, elegant solution. The resulting level would be a lot harder than the unchanged level, but considering this level's position in Genesis (Present 30, and remember that Present was originally after Sunsoft) I think it was meant to be a very hard level.

There's no urgency about deciding which version to use; we will almost certainly include this level, and it will go in one of the later ranks, so the decision can wait until we're arranging those ranks. So, does anyone else have an opinion about which version to go with?

[Proxima]

Proposed fix to "If at first you don't succeed".

By the way, I am very nearly ready to make final decisions and go back to the task of ordering, so if anyone has any last suggestions for levels to include, this is the time

[Proxima]

Okay, here's version 0.3.0. "Mind the step" is out, all the suggested inclusions are in, and I've rearranged ranks 1 and 2 to accommodate them. "Izzie Wizzie" and "Tension Sheet" were moved down to rank 2, while "Down the tube" was moved up. For ranks 3, 4 and 5, I've used Nepster's ordering for now, with a few levels moved about to fill the gaps where Nepster's ordering would have me use a level I'd already placed elsewhere. A few levels ended up slipping through the cracks, and I threw them in at the end of Lunatic just so I could get the build finished I'll get on with a proper arrangement of these ranks soon.

This version includes a few other changes. Earlier, we reduced some Tame and other levels from 20-of-all to 10-of-all, to avoid there being more bombers than the number of lemmings you can lose. I've put back the 20 builders, since some of these levels have some routes that use a lot of builders, and it's an easy skill for new players to run out of. ("Lemmings in the attic", of course, retains its original 50 builders.)

I've fixed the trapdoor on "Upside-down World", which namida should never have flipped And I've restored the terrain block on "Worra load of old blocks", making the traps visible by removing some of the steel.

[ccexplore]

In regards to Steel Mines of Kessel: I believe it was bomber heavy, yes? I also think the original gave access to blockers. If it DOESN'T give blockers, then the level is trivialized by NeoLemmix and should not be included. Other than that, I don't really care.

The Amiga version that is being considered for the remake has 10 builders, 10 blockers and 10 bombers.  The "watered down" DOS version gives 20 of each three skill types instead of 10 (and may have more lenient save requirements? don't remember off top my head).  The "broken" Mac version has the same skills as Amiga version, but retained the same save percentage with fewer number of lemmings out (so lowering the number of lemmings you can lose), and also has some terrain differences past the main part of the level that cause like 3 (IIRC) additional bombings to be required, making it much less forgiving than intended relative to the save requirement.

It is "bomber heavy" but does not require timing the bombers.

[namida]

In regards to Steel Mines of Kessel: I believe it was bomber heavy, yes? I also think the original gave access to blockers. If it DOESN'T give blockers, then the level is trivialized by NeoLemmix and should not be included. Other than that, I don't really care.

It did originally give blockers. However, timed or untimed, solving it with only the builders and bombers is no easy task (at least on the 10-of-each-skill version).

[Proxima]

And here's version 0.3.1, which is a serious attempt to arrange rank 3. Ranks 4 and 5 are still disarranged.

I had a couple more candidates for rank 3 than I could fit in, and selected "Upside-down World" and "Down the tube" as the levels to leave for the next rank.

[Proxima]

Version 0.3.2. "The Long Way Around" got left out by accident, so I've re-added it in rank 3, moving "Oh No! Squish" up.

"SEGA Four" now has the "SUNSOFT Special" music.

[Proxima]

So, I've just had a play through the first three ranks in the latest version, and I'm pretty happy with the ordering -- of course I'll wait for others to give feedback before calling anything final 

As I was playing, I was thinking about talismans, and I'd like to note down the ones I thought up so I don't forget them later Several of these are just old 100% challenges, but working out how to do them would still be interesting for new players -- and several of them are harder and more interesting in NL because it doesn't have the old glitches

After we've finished ordering the levels, I'll start a proper discussion of which talismans to include. For now, I'll just list everything I've thought of

List of talismans

Get a little extra help: 100% with only builders (this is more interesting if we revert to 10 builders)
Downwardly mobile lemmings: Solve with 1 skill
Keep your hair on, Mr Lemming: 100% with no destructive skills
Lemming toast: Solve in 1 minute
Where do you see lemmings?: 100% with only builders
Lemmings in the attic: Solve with no builders
Let's be careful out there: Solve in 1 minute
The Crankshaft: 100% with no builders
Turn around, young lemmings: Save 100%

PoP YoR ToP: Save 100%
DON'T PANIC: Save 100%
Plethora of Presents: Save 100%
Perseverance: Solve in 30 seconds
Cascade: Save 100%

LEMTRIS: Solve with no bashers
Mutiny on the Bounty: Save 100%
KEEP ON TRUCKING: Save 100%
Postcard from Lemmingland: Solve with no floater
ONWARD AND UPWARD: Save 37/40
Come on over to my place: Solve with 1 builder
Have a nice day: Solve with 5 builders
I have a cunning plan: Solve with no builders
ROCKY ROAD: Save 100%

The Lemming Funhouse: Save 100%
If at first you don't succeed...: Save 100% with 6 builders
The Steel Mines of Kessel: Solve with no blockers

It's hero time: Solve with no climber

[bsmith]

The 0.3.2 nxp is much larger than 0.3.1, is there a way to use a more compressed or smaller song file for the Sunsoft music?

Gentle 29 errors out with "The graphic set dirt_md.dat could not be found".  The _md versions of the graphic sets are not included with Neolemmix be default anymore.  Opening this level in an editor and changing the graphic set to the regular dirt one should fix this and keep the graphics in the pack consistent.  I would also check the other new additions.

[Proxima]

Version 0.3.3. I've converted the Sunsoft music to Ogg.

I've attached the dirt_md style as well. Next time Nepster's in chat, I'll discuss with him what we should do about this.

[nin10doadict]

I still feel like I did something I shouldn't have with 'Final Impediment.'
I'm thinking maybe just have the water under the middle column in 'If at first you don't succeed.' I like the normal solution I use of sending an athlete up to build the way then mining through the third pillar and bombing through the stairs. It feels a little less janky than what I had to do here.

On another note, I finally solved 'No justice for the hero.' No idea why that one took me so long... Made me feel like a total moron the whole time.

[Nessy]

Sorry for my absence on this thread lately.

I really like the ordering of all the levels. The only level that really stood out to me as being out of place was Down The Tube. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like that level should be one of the last levels of the final rank, especially after Let's Go Camping, No Added Colours Or Lemmings and Lemmings' Ark strictly from a difficult-for-a-beginner perspective and not a popularity perspective. However, I don't think we should move it into another rank because that's going to cause more of a headache figuring out what to add to replace it and what to take out and such. Maybe switch it with another rank 5 level? Maybe with Final Impediment or Fall And No Life Part 2 like you suggested a while back?

What does everyone else think about this?

And nin10doadict you should never feel like a moron , but personally I found No Justice For The Hero to be a tough level to figure out the very first time you play it. That and With A Little Help From My Lem, whose difficulty we underestimated when we went through the list for rank 2.

[Proxima]

As I said, ranks 4 and 5 haven't been ordered yet. Down the tube was one of several levels I was trying to fit in rank 3, and since I couldn't fit them all in, I threw it in at the end just to get the build finished. It's definitely not intended to stay there

nin10doadict: Nice catch on Final impediment, I'll fix that in the next update.