Lemmings 2 - The Tribes

[Simon]

core=auto
cputype=auto

Cycles around 10,000. Doesn't matter whether set in the config file, or raised from 3,000 to 10,000 during play.

Runs smoothly on a 10-year-old laptop at 2x 1.6 GHz, 3 GB RAM.

-- Simon

[Flopsy]

Ok, I managed to get the game running in a small window with barely noticeable problems but I change to full screen and the lag is unbearable. Other problems I've noticed is how the mouse cursor gets locked in the game window and I'm unable to do anything off the window without pressing Alt+Enter or pressing the Windows button.
This is with the settings which Simon suggested. It's the best I've managed to get the game to run so far so the settings do seem to be correct but I'm having so many problems trying to record anything, not to mention the fact that the window I'm trying to play the game on is only 20% of my screen.

I'm thinking the DOS version is not really suitable for my recording software anyway. It seems to knock off my screen capture software so easily and makes it unresponsive, it would corrupt my recordings and I can't risk that happening.
Would it be any better if I recorded the Genesis version of Tribes or would that be just as bad as the SNES one.
I'd be much more comfortable doing an emulated version of one of the console ports due to the incompatibility between my capture software and DOS box.

I appreciate everyone's help with trying to resolve this for me by the way

[namida]

Have you tried to emulate the Amiga version? It's probably a bit more work to set up, but if the console ports supposedly aren't as good...

[IchoTolot]

Ok, I managed to get the game running in a small window with barely noticeable problems but I change to full screen and the lag is unbearable. Other problems I've noticed is how the mouse cursor gets locked in the game window and I'm unable to do anything off the window without pressing Alt+Enter or pressing the Windows button.
This is with the settings which Simon suggested. It's the best I've managed to get the game to run so far so the settings do seem to be correct but I'm having so many problems trying to record anything, not to mention the fact that the window I'm trying to play the game on is only 20% of my screen.

I'm thinking the DOS version is not really suitable for my recording software anyway. It seems to knock off my screen capture software so easily and makes it unresponsive, it would corrupt my recordings and I can't risk that happening.
Would it be any better if I recorded the Genesis version of Tribes or would that be just as bad as the SNES one.
I'd be much more comfortable doing an emulated version of one of the console ports due to the incompatibility between my capture software and DOS box.

I appreciate everyone's help with trying to resolve this for me by the way

I've always ran it in window mode, so I did not encounter these problems.

[Flopsy]

I did look into Amiga emulation a few weeks ago but that is much more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. It seems more trouble than getting DOS Box to work.

I'm just more of a quality person so I'd much rather get good quality recordings and record a port which isn't going to give me much trouble, that's why I'd rather emulate a console version of Tribes. If the port isn't as good then that doesn't bother me so much as long as I record a good quality series.

Hope I don't have this much trouble when it comes to recording Revolution

[Simon]

Random idea: in dosbox.conf, try
output=opengl

...or one of the other output methods. Maybe that plays better with the recording software.

-- Simon

[mobius]

I don't blame you for not wanting to bother with PC emulators. In my own experience, at least, DOS box is totally stupid, why they had to or chose make it mimic how DOS use to actually work is beyond me, but it's completely not intuitive or easy to use. Compared with most console emulators which are extremely easy. Just open up, load game, play. Simple and easy.

Hope I don't have this much trouble when it comes to recording Revolution

You mentioned in chat I think that you got Windows XP? All the [good] recordings I've seen so far on youtube of Revolution are with XP so you may not have any problems at all. The problems I mentioned *may* all be due to Windows 7 and above.

[namida]

Compared with most console emulators which are extremely easy. Just open up, load game, play. Simple and easy.

To be fair, this is how virtually all consoles for which emulators exist work too, except Nintendo DS (and even that isn't far from load game, play). I think the idea with DOSBox is that it fully emulates a DOS PC, not just runs DOS programs - for example, I think you can load various DOS background processes, or even load some older versions of Windows inside it, which probably would not be doable if it merely ran games.

[geoo]

Re: graphics issues in fullscreen, I recall having some troubles as well. I think trying out different settings in the dosbox.conf might help, in particular the fullresolution and output parameters. See here for reference: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Dosbox.conf#.5Bsdl.5D

I don't blame you for not wanting to bother with PC emulators. In my own experience, at least, DOS box is totally stupid, why they had to or chose make it mimic how DOS use to actually work is beyond me, but it's completely not intuitive or easy to use. Compared with most console emulators which are extremely easy. Just open up, load game, play. Simple and easy.

Just drag your executable onto a DosBox shortcut and it runs your executable. Very simple.
Or create a .bat file which contains the text "path/to/dosbox.exe L2-FIX.COM" and double-click it.

Be glad you haven't used WinUAE yet to emulate Amiga stuff.

Doesn't the Genesis version have the same levels instead of dumbed down versions like SNES? Then that could be an option too (though a chore having to play Lemmings without a mouse).

[Flopsy]

I've been looking into the Genesis version recently, the music is different to the SNES but not the same mostly as the DOS/Amiga versions. There are 50 lemmings on Genesis instead of 40 on the SNES.

I think the game is very much the same as the SNES as a whole though, I watched bits of a longplay on Youtube. Except the eyes seem to be in the background of the Cavelems tribe and the music sounds much better than the bad bongos on the SNES.

It doesn't seem as dumbed down as the SNES version from what I've seen, I might opt for the Genesis version instead of SNES.

EDIT: In my opinion the only reason the SNES is better than the Genesis version is because of the mouse support. Other than that, Genesis seems better on so many other things.

[Leo]

There is mouse support in Lemmings 2 for Mega Drive/Genesis.

[Flopsy]

Wasn't aware of that

Didn't know there was a mouse accessory for Genesis

[ccexplore]

I don't blame you for not wanting to bother with PC emulators. In my own experience, at least, DOS box is totally stupid, why they had to or chose make it mimic how DOS use to actually work is beyond me, but it's completely not intuitive or easy to use. Compared with most console emulators which are extremely easy. Just open up, load game, play. Simple and easy.

As geoo explained, there are various means for DOSBox that can help make it easier to run games, at least for specific games.  Beyond that, you really can't blame the emulator on this:  DOS games in general (and more generally, DOS programs) were never as easy setup-wise as "just insert catridge and press Power button" console games, which being special-purposed devices were of course designed to make that part hassle-free.  So blame DOS if you must, but the emulator is merely emulating the same pains you would've gone through back in the days when Windows doesn't exist yet.

In any case, it sounds like the issue now is not merely running the game, but that there are performance/compatibility issue running DOSBox together with whatever recording software is being used.  There's really nothing to guarantee that a particular console emulator would fare any better in that regard, you just have to try and see if you get lucky or unlucky.

==========

As for version differences:

- the "original" versions in DOS/Amiga have 60 lemmings per tribe, rather than the 50 in Genesis and 40 in SNES, though I don't believe this has any meaningful impact to any levels.
- the SNES version definitely has a lot of changes, "dumb down" can be a fair assessment compare to the DOS/Amiga versions.  I don't recall the Genesis version specifically but from skimming walkthroughs, I think it is at least closer to DOS/Amiga compare to SNES.  If I have time I can try to find and call out any specific levels that have important differences.  There is a known bug on Genesis where walls and ceiling almost but don't quite extend to the top boundary of the level, allowing you on some levels to bypass some parts by walking on top of the ceiling.  But I believe this only really impacts like 2 or 3 levels, and you can simply restrain yourself from exploiting this bug in your own playing.
- I also vaguely recall that some of the console versions have better selection support (eg. directional select) compare to DOS/Amiga, though I no longer remember the exact details.  It shouldn't matter too much though in most levels, but you never know when it may come in handy.

I'd imagine you definitely want to try playing it on a setup with mouse support if at all possible, since a good number of Lemmings 2 levels feature wind-driven and similar skills where you need to constantly adjust the cursor position to properly direct the lemming's movements.  That will probably be easier to do with mouse.

[Flopsy]

Regarding DOS Box, I did run my SNES emulator ROM of Lemmings 2 and tried to record that and I can easily switch out of the window and go to my recording software should I need to and the recording carries on.
However whenever DOS Box runs, it does something to the recording software and it makes the recording stop occasionally and it doesn't even save the recording, it just saves a corrupted file which is very strange behaviour.
Because of this I cannot even show you a video of what happens because it just wrecks the recorded file.

With what I have in front of me, I think it's best to pursue a Genesis or SNES port playthrough due to the fact that it is better for me to run a console emulator while screen capturing.

DOS Box runs L2 pretty well in a windowed format and I'm not putting the program down. I think it's good for what it is and I can see why others would like it but I just cannot run it full screen without it lagging, and I just don't want the risk of having to repeat levels just because of recording issues, it won't bode well for my live playthrough format and it would also affect my mood and attitude towards the project.
I didn't intend to come across as being against DOS Box, I just think it's not suitable for what I'm trying to do.

On the note of Genesis vs SNES, I noticed the Genesis version was remarkably better than the SNES version. It's strange to think that the SNES version beat the Genesis version when it comes to a port of Lemmings 1 and when I say that I mean the SNES version was closer to the Amiga version than the Genesis port was. I know some here prefer the Genesis for the unique levels which arose from the port.

I'm not the sort to exploit glitches anyway, especially if it means going along ceilings.

I've done some comparisons between Genesis and SNES L2 and noticed that multiple SNES levels were changed because of non functioning traps. There's a Cavelems level which revolves around those red eye traps but the SNES version didn't have those traps so just instead inserted a lot of steel around the level as obstacles. I haven't extensively compared the two though because I don't want to spoil it for when I come to play L2 (I haven't played through L2 properly before).

[ccexplore]

Other problems I've noticed is how the mouse cursor gets locked in the game window and I'm unable to do anything off the window without pressing Alt+Enter or pressing the Windows button.

In case anyone (else) run into this: there is a setting in the DOSBox config file for that, look for "autolock=true" under the "[sdl]" section and change it to false.  The config documentation also mentions you can always press Ctrl+F10 to unlock manually even when autolock is set to true.

Out of curiosity, what software are you using to do the recording?