Nothing NeoLemmix-related working on my computer

[rtw]

I already PM'd Namida but I wanted to see if anybody else could help with this as well. NeoLemmix is not working on either of my computers, nor are a lot of NeoLemmix .exe's, like the Lemmings Plus games. I try to open them and I get nothing. I just get the "waiting..."-type cursor + swirling circle like it's trying to open, but it does that until I close the folder it's in. It doesn't even show up as a process in Task Manager. I have tried both opening NeoLemmix as normal and dragging the .nxp files onto NeoLemmix to try to get them to open automatically, but neither worked.

Anyone else ever experience this? I would love to try to play NeoLemmix packs on my streams, but this is a bit of a roadblock.

[ccexplore]

It is very strange that according to what you said, closing the folder (which I read to mean "closing the Windows Explorer window that's showing the contents of the folder) somehow unblocks the launch [edit: did I read that correctly, or is it still "nothing happens" even after closing the folder?].  It almost sounds more like a Windows problem than a NeoLemmix problem.  Have you tried running other EXEs from Windows Explorer and see if they have the same problem or not?

You mentioned you don't see it in Task Manager, but to clarify:  Task Manager has two views for showing what's running.  The tab named "Applications" (or "Processes" in Windows 8 onwards) may only list processes that have visible windows.  Whereas the tab named "Processes" (or, confusingly enough, "Details" in Windows 8 onwards) actually lists all processes that have started to run, even those that haven't gotten around to showing any visible windows yet.  My point is, I can't confirm from your report with Task Manager, whether NeoLemmix has even started running at all, versus have started but just somehow delayed in showing its window.  Obviously a big difference between the two cases:  the former would likely be more a Windows shell issue, while the latter is more likely a problem within NeoLemmix.

Based on the weird thing about closing the folder window helping to unblock the launch, here's one workaround that might be worth trying: create a shortcut for the EXE, put the shortcut in a different folder from the EXE, and try to launch through the shortcut instead of directly with the EXE.  The idea is that by using a shortcut placed in a different folder from the EXE itself, the thing you need to click and the actual EXE that's getting launched are no longer in the same folder.  So I'm hoping this would make your computer behave more like after the EXE's folder window was closed (which you reported somehow unblocks the launch).  Admittedly a long shot but I don't have any better ideas at the moment.  To create a shortcut, right-click on the EXE in the Explorer window, and select "create shortcut" in the popup context menu.

[namida]

I'm running Windows 10 these days, but I ran Windows 8.1 in the past. Never had issues...

I know often on development builds, I'd get that problem if there was an error with code that ran before anything was visible on screen. But I wouldn't release such a version. My first thought would be is your copy of the EXE (or perhaps the NXP) corrupted?

Do you have anything else that might be considered a bit different from a 'normal' setup, eg. lack of (or unusually-configured) soundcard, multiple screen setup, etc? (I'd be very surprised if such a thing caused a problem, but we did find one minor issue with the level editor recently that only happened on multi-screen setups).

Is it possible some kind of antivirus, parental / employee control, or similar software may be interfering? If you think there's any chance of that, can you try V1.41n or older (V1.41n player download) and let me know if they have the same issue - my thought here is that V1.42n onwards include some very limited online functionality (basically just checking if an update exists, and downloading missing graphic sets), so since it isn't a widely-used, highly-recognizable app, over-paranoid software might be blocking it; though I would think it'd usually give a messing alerting you to that.

I do recall from your videos that you got a new PC a while back. If you still have the old one - does the current version of NeoLemmix have problems on there?

I'm pretty much as lost about this as ccx is, but that is a good point about the task manager - does it show up at all under the Details tab?

I also didn't see this topic before I replied. If I had've, I'd've known that an older version of NeoLemmix wouldn't help, as the old setup of having one EXE per pack stopped from V1.37n onwards, whereas online stuff wasn't introduced until V1.42n.

[namida]

One more thing to try - right click the EXE, select "Properties". Is there an Unblock option here, and if so, does using it help? (For the record - the "blocked" status is generally applied to EXEs downloaded from the internet, unless they're very well-known and popular programs.) Normally Windows reaction to such a case is to display a warning, but I believe it's possible for it to be configured to just outright prevent the program from running.

You could also try running as admin to see if that helps, but I can't say I've ever seen a machine where you'd need to do so. However - if not running as admin, make sure NeoLemmix and any NXPs you're playing are in folders (can be the same folder as each other) that a not-run-as-admin program would be able to save files to. Generally, if you put it in a subfolder of your user directory (as opposed to, say, C:\NeoLemmix\), that would fulfill this condition. Though once again, I'd doubt this would actually cause problems with not booting; it's more likely to cause problems during play, when NeoLemmix attempts to save info on your settings and completed levels.

[Simon]

Expected behavior: NL shows a dialog, so we can pick an NXP to play. Only after we have picked an NXP, a graphical window comes up.

Apparently, not even the NXP-picker comes up. That's a standard Windows widget, so this is surprising.

Try ccx's and namida's ideas first. Maybe later, namida can throw together a test application that spawns only this widget, and doesn't initialize anything else. We lack any kind of error message, I have no idea except for debugging by such brute bisection.

-- Simon

[Nepster]

Just one more thought: Every time I start a downloaded .exe for the first time, my virus checker wants to upload the file to some cloud to check it in more details. With my computer this takes about 30sec. before starting NeoLemmix. However my virus checker displays some info window stating that, so there should be some bigger visible change than just the waiting cursor.

[ccexplore]

I'm starting to think I probably misread rtw's post.  Closing the folder window may have reverted the mouse cursor back to normal but the EXE never ran.  Otherwise it would just be an annoyance, it wouldn't be something that totally prevents you from playing.

Here's a thought: since you were gonna stream this anyway, make us a video of what exactly happens when you try running NeoLemmix on your computer.  It may reveal some minor detail that nevertheless proves to be helpful.  Also, a list of other programs that were installed on both computers might be helpful, maybe it was related a program installed on both your computers that no one else here has.  You can get such a list through eg. Control Panel -> Programs -> Programs and Features.

[IchoTolot]

Just one more thought: Every time I start a downloaded .exe for the first time, my virus checker wants to upload the file to some cloud to check it in more details. With my computer this takes about 30sec. before starting NeoLemmix. However my virus checker displays some info window stating that, so there should be some bigger visible change than just the waiting cursor.

This could be it!

I have to choose to always trust the exe each time (Win 7). For example the test mode in the editor won't start at all if the exe is not trusted yet.

Also not running as admin can be a popular error. Sadly I haven't Win 10 on my laptop anymore then I could help finding the error a lot better.

But I am also leaning towards a Win10 problem with the exe rather than the exe beeing bugged. I never saw NL not running on a system apart Linux without WINE until now.

[namida]

But I am also leaning towards a Win10 problem with the exe rather than the exe beeing bugged.

I myself develop and test it on Win10, so I doubt Win10 in and of itself is the problem. Even more so since rtw uses Windows 8.1.

[Apjjm]

It might be because of windows trying to be "helpful" with its security. Whenever I download a new NL version on windows 10 "Windows Smartscreen" helpfully reminds me that it is an unrecognised app that has an unknown publisher, and i have to tell it to "run anyway". You could try checking your smartscreen settings to see if it is blocking the program - which is possible if you are not running on an administrator account.

As a heads up, since you mentioned you are looking at playing neolemmix on your streams, OBS doesn't capture the cursor correctly for me in neolemmix (it ends up as a garbled mess):


The solution I found that worked for me was to capture the window using either FFSource (which you get if you download the FFSplit streaming program, you can still stream using OBS - you just need to download the standalone so you can run FFSource and use it as video capture device in obs 32bit) *or* to capture using SCFH DSF (though this is less user friendly to set up) - you will need to capture the monitor region this way as "game" capture doesn't work for NL.

[namida]

Could you try this copy of NeoLemmix.exe and let me know what happens?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1wr9tywtcbpr27t/NeoLemmix.exe?dl=0

Assuming it doesn't fail to start at all, you should get up to 4 messages:

"Test point 1 NeoLemmix.dpr"
"Test point 2 TMainForm.Create"
"Test point 3 TAppController.Create"
"Test point 4 TMainForm.PlayGame" <--- the app might be sent to the background and have to be re-brought-to-front from the Start Bar between the previous one and this one

Can you let me know which one is the last one you get before NeoLemmix fails?

Could you also let me know whether you have any such problems with any of the NeoLemmix-related tools (eg. the editor, the Flexi Toolkit, the graphic set tool, etc)?

[rtw]

Sorry I haven't been back to check on this. Weekends are generally not a good time for me to get up to speed on my leisure activities. So let me try to address everything in the thread from the beginning, except to first say that the new build failed to do anything whatsoever as well.

I was not aware that Details is the new Processes, so I checked that. There seem to be three copies of NeoLemmix running in the background, but if I try to End Task on any of them, Windows says "The operation could not be completed - Access is denied."

I right-clicked and selected Properties, but there was nothing to unblock.

Except for the build Namida just made, every time I download NeoLemmix there are attempts to block it by both Chrome and Windows. Chrome will try to discard it after the download finishes, but if I click the dropdown arrow next to the message, there is an option that allows me to keep it, so I do. When I try to open a copy of NeoLemmix with Windows, I get the message "Windows protected your PC: Windows SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk." If you click "More Info," you receive an option to "Run anyway," or you can choose "Don't run." When I choose "Run anyway," that's when absolutely nothing happens.

[namida]

I very much doubt it'll make a difference, but (assuming you haven't already tried it), can you try running as admin and seeing if that makes a difference? (Right click the EXE, select "Run as admin".)

NeoLemmix does need to be able to create / modify files in the same folder as itself, so if it's somehow in a folder that requires admin privilege to write to, that could be the issue. However, in such a case, it shouldn't outright fail, but rather, close with an error message.

Is it possible that a third-party security app (eg. antivirus or firewall) is interfering with it? If so, does adding NeoLemmix to its whitelist help? And if this does help - could you let me know which software you're using that's having issues with it? Unless your security program is extremely paranoid, I would doubt this is the issue, but I can't think of anything else that might be at fault - for quite a while I was using Windows 8.1 myself and didn't have any problems, and I'm almost certian we have a few other users here who use it too.

Just in case - is there anything else non-typical about your PC's setup that could be causing problems? (eg. multi-display setups, no soundcard, running in a VM, etc?)

[rtw]

I have Avast, but I scanned it and it doesn't consider it a threat. Only Windows and Chrome seem to be actively throwing a fit about it.

I tried doing NeoLemmix from my external drive, because that doesn't require admin permissions. But it still wouldn't open.

I have tried running as admin several times. Running as an administrator actually tends to make it worse, because then I can't close whatever folder I opened it from.

There is nothing non-typical about my setup. One monitor, perfectly fine sound card, no VM, nothing like that. Pretty much runs as it did out of the box.

There's also this, though: I have Revenge of the Lemmings in NeoLemmix form, and it DOES work. So ....

[namida]

So - the older EXE-based players do work, but the newer ones that use NXP files don't?

Here's a DropBox folder that has several older versions: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8gyl972prhhlse5/AAAv5yYUV0C748Ch3AeZO0JKa?dl=0

Versions up to V1.36n use single EXE files for each game; V1.37n onwards use NXP files instead. Could you see if you can find which is the newest version that does work? Ones in particular that may be worth trying are V1.36n (last one to use standalone EXEs for each game), and V1.41n (last one without any online functionality). You might get compatibility errors when running newer NXPs with older versions (in the case of versions that do use NXPs), but the thing we're looking for here is whether or not they run at all.

In particular, if it's only the versions with online functionality that give issues, I can put together a modified version that entirely strips out this functionality (and in future, look at implementing it in a different way so it's less likely to cause problems). EDIT: In case it does help, here's a version with all online functionality stripped out. Aside from online functionality being stripped and the "EXPERIMENTAL PLAYER RELEASE" text on the title screen, it's completely identical to the recently-released V1.43n-B. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1wr9tywtcbpr27t/NeoLemmix.exe?dl=0

I do recall older versions of Avast would detect NeoLemmix as a false positive, but it's long since stopped doing that.