607 plays Lemmings 1 and ONML

[Proxima]

and there would be a lot of precision required to let the climber first climb past the unfinished bridge and then land on top of it.

That's exactly it. Not really all that much precision, since you only need to adjust the timing of one skill, and there's a fairly lenient window.

[607]

On November 1st I beat a lot of Tricky levels again in Lemmings 95. I then explored the file structure, and did some fun hacks.

Now I'll try another Mayhem level in the original Lemmings.
Mayhem 15, The Fast Food Kitchen, was absurdly easy. Even knowing that the Fire style levels are the easiest in the game, I was very surprised by this particular level. Oh well!

I'm now on Just a Minute, and now that I know (very late, as I did IL battles without this knowledge) that you can save seconds by pausing at the start, I'd like to do that every time. It didn't matter, anyway, as I had 4 seconds spare. (if it was really a game of seconds, I also should have played on the other graphics mode )

Stepping Stones is very precise, but easy to figure out.

And where the Fire levels are the easiest, the Dirt levels are the most intimidating. And then there were four... is certainly very much so!
However, to my surprise, I did do quite well on my first try, saving 87%, with the requirement being 90%! I could have saved that extra few by assigning a blocker to a Lemming in the fourth quadrant, to keep the builder-Lemming-to-be separate from the rest. And I could have done less multi-tasking, as I actually had 4 minutes left at the end. But the multi-tasking does make it more fun!

[Forestidia86]

Just out of curiosity: Are your assignments as well a frame delayed in Winlemm 95?
In my Winlemm playthrough I encountered that the game performs assignments one frame delayed, which made some maps harder. And I'm interested if others encounter that as well.

[607]

Just out of curiosity: Are your assignments as well a frame delayed in Winlemm 95?
In my Winlemm playthrough I encountered that the game performs assignments one frame delayed, which made some maps harder. And I'm interested if others encounter that as well.

I have not noticed that. If you assign a skill while the game is paused, it will only happen one frame later, but I have not noticed this during unpaused gameplay. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though, as I haven't paid close attention.

[grams88]

Hi 607


How are you getting on with the lemmings levels.  That's actually not a bad attempt for a first attempt at the (And then there were four) level. 87% you rescued.

[607]

Heh, it's been a while! We'll see, it might be a week, it might be a year ere I continue.
Edit: These messages do help me remember the possibility, though!
Edit 2: I played some Lemmings 95... I'm getting to the end of Tricky, and it actually is tricky! I honestly hadn't expected that, already having beaten so much of Mayhem in the DOS version!

[607]

I beat And then there were four...! I had a plan for saving all 100 Lemmings, but then I accidentally fell back onto an earlier plan, which made me lose one Lemming by forgetting about it and one by necessity. Still, quite enough! Reading my first post about it, it seems like maybe I didn't realise that you could use the 2 climbers to separate the worker Lemming from the crowd in the bottom two quadrants?

[607]

I knew it had been a while since I had last played, but I was surprised to see that it has been over two and a half years!
At this rate, I'm not sure if I'll ever finish the game.
But I'm finally continuing, this evening!
Time to get up! was a relaxing level. It wasn't hard to find a strategy for it (although for me it wasn't trivial, either), but it took a while to execute because of the building, and I found the bombers at the end to be frustrating. After a few failed attempts I got the idea to use left over builders to delay the exploders if necessary. That worked!
No added colours or Lemmings was quite cool! I do think that's a level that I've heard mentioned in 'best of' lists. I considered about five strategies, I think, before finding a winning one, and I think that's quite cool. My solution also was quite satisfying, it does not feel like a backroute!
I also took a good look at With a twist of lemmings please, but so far I haven't been able to figure it out! I would like to say that I don't understand the level order here. Why does a marble tileset, 50 Lemmings, 100%, 5 minutes, reused level layout, follow a marble tileset, 50 Lemmings, 100%, 5 minutes, reused level layout?

[WillLem]

At this rate, I'm not sure if I'll ever finish the game.

Don't give up! You're almost there

I would like to say that I don't understand the level order here. Why does a marble tileset, 50 Lemmings, 100%, 5 minutes, reused level layout, follow a marble tileset, 50 Lemmings, 100%, 5 minutes, reused level layout?

It's either a coincidence, or maybe the designer who made the hardest levels just favoured the marble tileset, and these happen to be grouped together in Mayhem because they're hard. Now that you've mentioned this, I have a feeling that all of the difficult marble levels were made by the same designer. Further study of those levels may reveal stylistic consistencies...

Interesting spot!

Yup. The Amiga version is the original, so the DOS version relaxed the requirements on several levels.

Hmm! I didn't realise this. Another reason to think of the Amiga version as definitive, perhaps?

[607]

It's either a coincidence, or maybe the designer who made the hardest levels just favoured the marble tileset, and these happen to be grouped together in Mayhem because they're hard. Now that you've mentioned this, I have a feeling that all of the difficult marble levels were made by the same designer. Further study of those levels may reveal stylistic consistencies...

Plausible!

Hmm! I didn't realise this. Another reason to think of the Amiga version as definitive, perhaps?

Or a reason to think of the DOS version as definitive. Although it doesn't have the 2 player mode or the intro.

[WillLem]

Hmm! I didn't realise this. Another reason to think of the Amiga version as definitive, perhaps?

Or a reason to think of the DOS version as definitive. Although it doesn't have the 2 player mode or the intro.

Why, if it deviates from the original? The blue background of the Amiga version makes everything look warmer and gives the game a better atmosphere that the DOS version as well as all of the other things that make it generally better.

The Amiga version will always be the one I think of as definitive, anyway. All other contemporary ports seem to be in some way watered down, missing levels, or - as you've mentioned - missing the 2-player mode. Even the Mac version, which has better graphics and a fast-forward button, messes up some of the levels so that they become prohibitively difficult.

[The Tomato Watcher]

The Amiga version will always be the one I think of as definitive, anyway. All other contemporary ports seem to be in some way watered down, missing levels, or - as you've mentioned - missing the 2-player mode. Even the Mac version, which has better graphics and a fast-forward button, messes up some of the levels so that they become prohibitively difficult.

Japan got the Sharp X68000 version though, which is basically a facsimile of the Amiga version, 2-player mode, intro, blue background and all, but with fast-forward (though it's activated by pressing SHIFT+2 which is absurd), both DOS and Amiga keyboard controls, FM synth music (that's nowhere near as abrasive as the DOS version's AdLib soundtrack can be!), and a fun little credits sequence.

I don't know if that's outside the realm of this discussion or not, but I had to bring it up.

[Dullstar]

Why, if it deviates from the original?

Was just reading through this and saw this, and thought it worth mentioning:

There's multiple reasons they could have lowered the requirements. One such possible reason is that they may have thought some of the save requirements were too harsh, so in theory these could be considered balancing changes in the era before patches were really a thing. Or it could just be a quirk of the fact that some of the lemming counts are different because of the 100 vs. 80 lemming cap and they may not have necessarily adjusted them all evenly.

Of course with some of the downgrades from the Amiga perhaps one could argue that there is no real definitive edition.

[WillLem]

Japan got the Sharp X68000 version though

Hmm. This does sound better! Investigating...

perhaps one could argue that there is no real definitive edition.

Oh, there isn't, for sure. Or rather - because there are so many editions, everyone will tend to think of the one that they grew up with as definitive. That's certainly the view in my case*, but I also have the fact that the game was written on and first released on the Amiga to add a bit of chunk to it; both arbitrary things when considering the way the game developed across the various ports, but still key pieces of info which may or may not factor into someone's view of what is "definitive."

*EDIT - I also just happen to think that the Amiga interface is generally more aesthetically pleasing than some of the other ones. The DOS colour scheme is a bit weak in comparison, for example. None of them are perfect, though.