Cheapo music questions

[Proxima]

Following on from a discussion in the "Cheapo level packs" topic:

I've heard that it's very difficult to create Cheapo styles, but supposing that I just wanted to adapt an existing one with new musics (like Steaver did with the Lemmus styles) is this easy? How would I do it?

And (a separate question, though obviously linked) does anyone know whether it's possible to get MIDIs for the Lemmings musics that aren't in the Lemmus styles? (That's "How much is that doggie", the six ONML musics, and the four special graphics level musics other than Fun 22 which is in there. Maybe also the Tribes musics if they're any good, which I wouldn't know about.)

[Shvegait]

It's not very difficult to create Cheapo styles. Just follow the document "Custom Style File.doc" for details. I'm not sure, but I bet you'd have to change the actual .stt file and generate the new style to incorporate the music. Then again I haven't done too much with Cheapo styles so maybe someone else would have a better answer to your question.

I'm not sure where people would have all these other Lemmings MIDIs though.

[guest]

And (a separate question, though obviously linked) does anyone know whether it's possible to get MIDIs for the Lemmings musics that aren't in the Lemmus styles?

Oh, it's certainly possible.  We're not talking rocket science here.  

1) You might be able to search and find them on the Internet.  That would be the most expedient route if it works.  Sadly, the one video game music website that I've looked into, vgmusic.com, carries very few MIDIs of Lemmings, and I haven't found anything from ONML on that site.  (But it does have a surprisingly authentic-sounding "Menacing" music [the special graphics level for tricky].)  But there should be many other sites that carries video game and computer game music.

2) I know DragonsLover is working on MIDI versions of the music from PC lemmings, with the aim to make them sound like the PC version.  Though I'm not sure if he's gotten around to any of the music you particularly requested here.

3) Finally, there is yours truly.  If your search comes up empty-handed I'm willing to sequence all the music you've listed here for you.  With the caveats:

a) it'll take a while, probably at least 3 days per minute of music, 5 days if you want something more than just the melody and bassline.  Basically, you'd probably be done with the entire remake project before I finish.

b) you should tell me right off which version of the game I should base my sequencing off of, since whatever I end up with will sound a little like what I start off from.  I don't know which version has the "best" music.  I can't do the Mac version since I don't have a Mac.  For anything else besides the PC, you or something else will need to tell me where to download an emulator and more importantly, the ROM.

c) I can't guarantee you'd like the results since I'm not a professional, but I can at least guarantee that all the notes will be there and will be correct.

the four special graphics level musics other than Fun 22 which is in there

I think that version of Fun 22 in the Lemmus styles is long overdue for a redo.  It sucks.

The rest of the MIDIs in the Lemmus styles are actually verbatim copies of the MIDIs in the Windows version of Lemmings, which explains why they are acceptable.  As compare to the version of Fun 22 in the Lemmus style which is obviously an amateur effort, with some wrong notes to boot.

I have a version of Fun 22 I sequenced myself, based on the PC version (go to my website).  While not exactly spectacular I think it's at least a hair better than the delapidated version in the Lemmus styles.  I can also do a sequence based on the SNES version which I think will result in something people would like better.

Maybe also the Tribes musics if they're any good, which I wouldn't know about.)

That's a whole different question altogether.  The music in the Tribes actually vary quite a bit depending on which system you're talking about.  For example, the Sega Megadrive version have completely different music from the SNES version.  I think the SNES version is similar to the PC version but being the SNES, it sounds a whole notch better.

One nice thing about the SNES version is that there are programs out there to directly "rip" the music from a ROM (which I have), and other programs to convert them (with some manual corrections afterwards) to MIDI.  So making MIDIs of the SNES version of Tribes music will take relatively little effort.  But again, search the Internet first.

[Proxima]

Actually, I wasn't thinking of these for the remakes set, but for my own level sets, which I'm hoping to get back on with working on once the remakes are over (estimated release date 6 May). So I'd be quite happy for you to do them if you'd be willing; I'd make the effort to search on the Internet first, of course. I'll let you know in a couple of days whether I've come up with anything.

[DragonsLover]

2) I know DragonsLover is working on MIDI versions of the music from PC lemmings, with the aim to make them sound like the PC version. &#A0;Though I'm not sure if he's gotten around to any of the music you particularly requested here.

Yep! I'm planning to sequence ALL Lemmings, Oh no more Lemmings and Lemmings 2: The Tribes musics based on PC versions, special levels included (and maybe the Holiday ones too).

For now, almost all original songs from Lemmings are done, only 2 or 3 songs are missing. I have also the special ones to do.

Also, I've sequence some remixes, but they aren't so good for now, they were my first compositions on Lemmings songs and it was only Electric guitar for the few first ones... Anyway, if you're interested, just contact me!

[guest]

Here's another random link with Lemmings MIDI.  I wasn't even looking for MIDIs but a link in a page I visited via Google leads to

http://www.hamienet.com/cat543.html

Sadly, it doesn't have any MIDIs related to your requests.  In fact some are just blatant copies of the WinLemm MIDIs (gee, why am I not surprised).  However, a few are rearranged versions that are different from the WinLemm MIDIs, and in fact I'd say those are better than the WinLemm's!  B) (Well listen and decide for yourself.)

I don't think the site carries ONML music, certainly not on that particular page, but I'll look further and see.

[Mr. K]

I'm working on an Impulse Tracker song of ONML Level 1 (Down and Out Lemmings). It's coming along well, and my tracker makes it possible to convert to MIDI easily.

[guest]

Cool.  Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing the impulse tracker version as well, even though I can't actually put it into a Cheapo style.

Which version of the game are you basing off from?  Just curious.  Actually, I haven't had much luck trying to find anything besides the PC version.

[guest]

Good news:  with Essman's advice, I have just successfully incorporate a MIDI into an existing style.

Well, technically it's really just me creating a new style based on an existing style, but replacing the entire "Music" section of the style with my selection of MIDIs.  The nice thing about styles is that for each section you can either do the section yourself, or just reference stuff from another already-made style (.sty) file.  So in this case, I basically just did references for all the sections, in particular to CrystalLemmus.sty (well, kind of), and then do the "Music" section myself.  You should read the document on custom styles for more info.

One caveat though with referencing other style files:  it doesn't work if that style file you are referencing for the section in question, if that style file itself refers to something else.  In other words you can't reference a reference.  So ultimately you'd need to trace back to the style file that contains the actual real data, and to do that you pretty much have to just open up all your style files and guess and check.

But fortunately for the XLemmus styles we are okay, because they basically references either default.sty or one of Peter Spada's pre-made styles.

Here is an example of the file CrystalLemmus2.stt I used to try creating a working CrystalLemmus2.sty file:

Code Select Expand

Header: "Cheapo Copycat Level Editor"
Style: "Crystal with Other Lemmings Music"
Author: "Guest"

Sketches: "Default.sty"
End

Erasers: "Default.sty"
End

Sounds: "Default.sty"
End

Music:
 Number: 2
 File: "PCLemmings_FunSpecial.mid"
 Done
End

Lemmings: "Default.sty"
End

Standards: "Default.sty"
End

Images: "Default.sty"
End

Graphics: "Orig-Blue.sty"
End

Objects: "Orig-Blue.sty"
End

TheEnd
Note that the blank line right before the "Header" line is important!  For the longest time I couldn't get the editor to accept the .stt file, and it turns out I need a blank line before the "Header" line.

As you can see, although this is supposed to be based off of CrystalLemmus.sty, not anywhere did I actually reference that file.  The reason is that CrystalLemmus.sty itself turns out to not contain any data of its own besides the music section.  Instead they either come from Default.sty, or in the case of the graphics for the terrain and objects, obviously from Orig-Blue.sty.

-----------------------

The above you should basically use as a template for redoing the other styles.  The only thing you'd change from style to style is the "Graphics:" and "Objects:" section, and it should be obvious which file to reference.

The "Music" section you'd of course never reference any style files, since the whole point is we're trying to add new MIDIs.  Well actually you can't really add MIDIs, so it's probably easier to just redo that section with totally new MIDIs instead and generate a new style off your .stt file.  Besides you get more slots for the new collection of music you want to include.

(Peter did mention that if you really want to just add music to, say, CrystalLemmus.sty, you can instead extract the MIDIs from that style file as follows.  Every time you playtest a MIDI in the level editor, the program makes a tempmidi.mid file (or maybe it's mididtemp.mid).  Just copy that file and you have a copy of the MIDI you just played that was in the style.)

--------------------------

Finally, some advice on the MIDIs themselves:

1) It seems that there is a little bit of a lag between Cheapo trying to play the music and when you will actually start hearing notes.  The problem being that if your MIDI has notes right at the very beginning, they might not actually be audible for some reason.  So be prepared to add a short moment of silence (probably no more than 0.5 seconds or something, experiment and find out) to the beginning of the MIDI to prevent note from being skipped over.

2) In any event, you definitely should playtest the MIDIs on a real level, not just in the level editor.  That will catch any issues with #1 above for example.  Also, it gives you the most accurate idea on what kind of volume you'll get when you actually play a level with the MIDI playing in the background, so you can adjust the MIDI accordingly to the desired volume.  To playtest the MIDI on a real level you'd need to generate the style with whatever MIDI you have, then create a level using that style, and then play the level.  A little annoying but it's helpful, and also helps ensure that you did the .stt part right.  (If not the level would either be unplayble or you would be unable to add terrain or objects in the level editor.)

3) Remember that every time you modify a MIDI file used in a style, you'd need to regenerate the .sty file from the .stt, to incorporate the changes.  It's just a one-step process so shouldn't be a big deal.

[Isu]

You know, I was having problems creating a *.sty file using an *.stt I created. I never had a blank line at the top of the document, so if I do that it should accept it. Thanks 'Guest'

[Shvegait]

Interesting about making copies of MIDIs, that should be useful

However, I've got a *.stt file that doesn't have a blank line at the beginning and has no problems being read in by the editor... so I'm not sure what the issue is there...

[guest]

Hey guys.

I don't know if this helps any, but I did manage to get the actual .MED (not MOD?) music files from the Amiga version of Lemmings 2 The Tribes. With a program I found on the internet I can save them as .WAVS or .MP3's but I would like to convert them to .MID files. Does anyone know of a way to do this? I'm not really up on MIDI files but it seems to me we should be able to do this. Also, does anyone know of how I can extract the music files from Oh No More Lemmings (Amiga or PC/Win version)?

Thanks

[Essman]

However, I've got a *.stt file that doesn't have a blank line at the beginning and has no problems being read in by the editor... so I'm not sure what the issue is there...

Yeah, I had no idea that there was such a bug. None of my STT files ever had a blank line at the top.

[guest]

Yeah, I had no idea that there was such a bug. None of my STT files ever had a blank line at the top.

Maybe my copy of Cheapo is corrupted or something.

If it matters, you can send me your copy of Cheapo and I can send you the .stt I had troubled with before.

(Later tonight that is, I'll be at work for a while.)

[the resident guest]

First of all, just to clarify, the guest who posted two posts above is not the regular guest.  This post is from the regular guest.    So no, I haven't gone insane (yet), I'm not replying to myself.

I don't know if this helps any, but I did manage to get the actual .MED (not MOD?) music files from the Amiga version of Lemmings 2 The Tribes. With a program I found on the internet I can save them as .WAVS or .MP3's but I would like to convert them to .MID files.

Eek.  WAV->MID is the worst possible conversion.  It would be far better to do a MOD->MID conversion which would certainly be helpful.

Problem with WAVs are, they are just the raw sound waves, and computer science hasn't advanced enough yet to reliably extract musical notes out of raw sound waves.  You can find converters off the Internet, but most aren't too good and requires massive post-editing to get something halfway decent.

Also, does anyone know of how I can extract the music files from Oh No More Lemmings (Amiga or PC/Win version)?

I imagine for the Amiga version you can do it via an emulator or something.

For the PC version I have already extracted, or more accurately, recorded the ONML music through the use of DOSBox (Ctrl-F5 captures to WAV).  DOSBox also has the feature to record directly the data sent to the sound card (Ctrl+Alt+F7) but I know of no programs that can actually do anything with such recorded data directly.

As far as I can tell the Windows version does not have the ONML music, just the levels.

The Lemmings 2 MODs will definitely come in handy though, thanks!