NeoLemmix Conversion of Lemmini levelpacks?

mobius · October 01, 2015, 02:17:10 AM

Would anyone be interested in a Neolemmix conversion of DoveLems or PimoLems or any other Lemmini pack?
If I do so, I would first have to contact the authors and see if they're okay with it of course.
If I did this anyone who could or would like to help is welcome to. [If I do, it's going to be a while, still have a few other lemmings related activites planned for the near future].

It would not be a simple task, though not a hugely difficult one either.
-The biggest [or maybe better put; most annoying] issue is the hi-res graphic conversion; every level would need to be at least looked over to see that it looks good; in some cases a lot of terrain pieces may have to be nudged. After the big Neolemmix update this may or may not still be a problem.

-Levels relying on Lemmini specific behavior would have to be left out.

-Levels would have to be tested and I myself have not yet solved all of Dovelems or PimoLems [or maybe ANY level pack in it's entirety....

]

namida · October 01, 2015, 05:18:43 AM

Since NX2's physics are still going to be based off low-resolution, this could still lead to cases where levels need to be touched up manually; in particular any that have a piece on an odd coordinate (by Lemmini's resolution). The idea of a complete change to hi-res was put forward, but was very strongly rejected.

IchoTolot · October 01, 2015, 10:34:03 AM

Scrab the If! This needs to be done (if the creators agree)! I also thought and planned about this project and would have started with PimoLems after I finished my video series.

Argh möbius this should have been a surprise

Levels that rely on Lemmini behavior could maybe be altered to fit into NL. I did this too with some of my own stuff.
As I solved PimoLems and DoveLems and currently even doing a video series of PimoLems, I could do the task as I have no real big project atm (just slowly gathering of new levels).
For my conversion of Reunion I just used the NL version of the standard tilesets, so no real worries about high-res needed here (they will still look good). Also there are still a few old backroutes and possible new backroutes due to NL to be fixed and of course most time limits could be trashed.

If möbius is ok with this, I could begin with PimoLems and quickly ask Pieuw if this is ok for him. I would send over to you the levels + intended solution replays, so you could test the result (So a bit more time for your own projects. Would love to play ML2

). It would be an honor for me to convert this for newer engines!

Edit: Would still need some help with rating signs and logo as my drawing skills are still very limited

namida · October 01, 2015, 10:47:08 AM

For the record, with NX2 planning to allow multiple graphic sets in a single level, I'll see what I can do about making the Epic tileset automatically convert to use multiple tilesets, rather than duplicating everything. (This'll also reduce the high res vs low res issues with it). I may very well do the same for Xmas (using parts of the Snow set where applicable) too.

geoo · October 01, 2015, 10:51:09 AM

I'm in support of this, though I don't think I can be of much help doing the actual conversion as I've never played these levels. Which I haven't because Lemmini is just too frustrating to use.
It'd also mean there's a unified engine to play pretty much all of the big level collections - sans the Cheapo ones (or does that actually work too to some extent now, not considering some missing features like gravity?)

namida · October 01, 2015, 11:03:31 AM

The levels / graphics can be converted; physics-wise it implements a few tweaks to behave more like Cheapo but doesn't try to be a perfect replica. That aside, pretty much everything is supported except for hints and gravity changes. I believe DynaLem put together one such collection of converted levels?

There's currently a glitch with the two-way teleporter where it sometimes makes lemmings disappear; I've found the cause of this and it'l be fixed in the -D update.

IchoTolot · October 01, 2015, 02:15:45 PM

Ok, I've sent Pieuw a Youtube pm (as he was active there a short time ago), if he would give the OK to such a conversion. I'll let you know if I got an answer!

GigaLem · October 01, 2015, 05:16:35 PM

I am open for the idea, but some level have to change because of neolemmix's Physics

IchoTolot · October 01, 2015, 05:18:42 PM

Annnd I've got the Ok from Pieuw

Now just waiting for möbius answer, so that we can plan this out!

mobius · October 01, 2015, 09:22:20 PM

Jeez, everybody is posting so quickly on everything lately... I can't keep up $:-\$

If you want to do it, sure! by all means.

I really don't have a lot of time atm, but I could do a few things, you can ask me about whatever. I do remember backrouting a few of Pieuw's levels, I'll see if I can find old replays or just remember the levels.

I'm glad Pieuw agreed. Has he said anything about what to do with levels that don't work in part or whole?
Some levels may just need a quick and simple fix that wouldn't even be very noticable; while others may require more serious changes. Some levels might still be possible but the exact solution may not be at all possible.

Some of the major issues I can think of off the top of my head:
-timed bombers
-the timer of Lemmini is tighter
-miner's don't turn on steel
-splatters can explode
-direct drop does not work
-while I don't think Pieuw or Dodochacalo ever did this, Gronkling definitely has; look out for entrances with terrain behind them to turn the lemmings.

IchoTolot · October 01, 2015, 09:58:32 PM

Quote from: möbius on October 01, 2015, 09:22:20 PM
Jeez, everybody is posting so quickly on everything lately... I can't keep up $:-\$

If you want to do it, sure! by all means. I really don't have a lot of time atm, but I could do a few things, you can ask me about whatever. I do remember backrouting a few of Pieuw's levels, I'll see if I can find old replays or just remember the levels.

I'm glad Pieuw agreed. Has he said anything about what to do with levels that don't work in part or whole?
Some levels may just need a quick and simple fix that wouldn't even be very noticable; while others may require more serious changes. Some levels might still be possible but the exact solution may not be at all possible.

Some of the major issues I can think of off the top of my head:
-timed bombers
-the timer of Lemmini is tighter
-miner's don't turn on steel
-splatters can explode
-direct drop does not work
-while I don't think Pieuw or Dodochacalo ever did this, Gronkling definitely has; look out for entrances with terrain behind them to turn the lemmings.

Pieuw: "No... But I would give my absolute approval

"

Nothing specific about altering levels, but I will stay as close to the original as possible.

Nepster · October 03, 2015, 08:40:39 AM

I am a huge fan of this project and if you have small tasks, I would be glad to help (but not with drawing rating signs, because I am very bad at this).

To reduce the amount of work, wouldn't it be better to wait for NeoLemmix V2.00 first (or at least until all mechanics changes are decided) and then adapt the Lemmini levels to NeoLemmix?

IchoTolot · October 03, 2015, 09:36:11 AM

Quote from: Nepster on October 03, 2015, 08:40:39 AM
I am a huge fan of this project and if you have small tasks, I would be glad to help (but not with drawing rating signs, because I am very bad at this).

To reduce the amount of work, wouldn't it be better to wait for NeoLemmix V2.00 first (or at least until all mechanics changes are decided) and then adapt the Lemmini levels to NeoLemmix?

To convert to 2.00 I will simply run through all my saved replays and see if they are still ok, after building the pack again with the new 2.00 editor and that should be it (if no replay is corrupt).
Until now 2.00 seems to have just a few minor machanic changes which do not matter for 99.9% of the levels, so work is already in progress

. I don't mind to check quickly through it again for the 2.00 update.

Annnd for small tasks: It seems I have another person to send in a bunch of levels for testing

namida · October 03, 2015, 09:43:49 AM

QuoteTo convert to 2.00 I will simply run through all my saved replays and see if they are still ok, after building the pack again with the new 2.00 editor and that should be it (if no replay is corrupt).

As a bonus, I'm hoping to include some feature to help quickly mass-test replays to check which ones do or don't work. (I believe Lix already has a similar feature, if you're familiar with it.)

Pieuw · October 04, 2015, 08:07:10 AM

QuoteI'm glad Pieuw agreed. Has he said anything about what to do with levels that don't work in part or whole?

I'm afraid many levels will give you trouble, as I had fun exploiting a lot of Lemmini's weird mechanics... you can do what you think is best, I give you carte blanche. Open source PimoLems!