2.00 Customizable scorekeeping?

[Proxima]

One somewhat strange feature of NeoLemmix is that completion of a level is awarded a score based on a complicated algorithm whose details are hidden from the player. In theory, this allows another dimension for competition / challenges. In practice it seems to be ignored; there was a topic in Challenges for best scores on the original levels, but it quickly died, and nothing similar even got started for custom levels.

One possible reason is that Lemmings just isn't the right kind of game for a numerical score -- it already has a natural metric for comparing solutions, namely number of lemmings saved. (Simon has claimed that no-one cares about scores in any game, but this is certainly false.)

So there's a question whether the scoring system should be kept into NeoLemmix 2 at all.

If it is kept, my first suggestion for improving it would be to allow pack designers to customize the algorithm -- i.e. they can decide what to take into account and how many points each factor is worth. For instance, if I were to do a pack I'd like to use a simpler system. Pack designers who don't want to have a scoring system at all could disable it. It wouldn't matter that the algorithm would vary from one pack to another, since comparison of scores across different levels is meaningless.

Also, I suggest that if it's kept, the scoring system should be made more significant. The game itself could keep track of your best score for each level, and display it under the score just achieved on the post-completion screen. Achieving above a score threshold could be one category for talismans.

[namida]

I actually haven't thought much about whether to keep it or not; but indeed, it does seem rather useless.

The scoring system is documented here, though I don't know if it's 100% up-to-date: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nbjox4n1jhxhuy9/Score%20Mechanics.txt?dl=0
(It lacks any details on how Cloners are treated, but as far as I can remember there's no other changes to the system since that was written.)
Basically, it's what you'd expect - save as many lemmings as possible, take as little time as possible (time between start and saving the first lemming is more important than time between that and saving the last one), use as few skills as possible. There's a few other specific details in there, but those are the big ones. 100% in particular gets a huge bonus; generally saving 100% is worth the loss in other areas, unless the 100% solution is significantly more complex (eg. Tricky 25 probably would get the optimal score from a non-100% solution).

The game does in fact currently keep track of your highest scores (as well as highest save count and best time), and these can be displayed on a level's preview screen by pressing R. (Note: This does not apply to NeoCustLemmix; it does however work in Flexi-based custom packs).

Ultimately - unless there's a strong opinion that the scoring system should be kept, chances are it'll be gone in V2.00n. If it is kept, making it customizable is quite a task; most likely it'd be limited to tweaking the numbers (which could include setting some of them to zero).

[Crane]

Scoring is a tricky one because of the obscurity of the system to a newcomer.  I figured that, generally, the high 'scores' aim towards the fastest completion time and the highest percentage saved (not necessarily the two together).  On a lesser scale, there's using the fewest tools possible or forsaking a particular skill completely (e.g. playing the Fun and early Tricky levels without using any blockers), but it's hard to really put a consistent scoring system to this, plus such challenges are often specific to a level.  So I'm happy to see the score disappear.

[ccexplore]

If it is kept, making it customizable is quite a task; most likely it'd be limited to tweaking the numbers (which could include setting some of them to zero).

I'm pretty sure that's all Proxima had in mind, the ability to just tweak the numbers involved, rather than the ability to create whole new scoring formulas from scratch:

i.e. they can decide what to take into account and how many points each factor is worth

The idea sounds nice on paper, but I kinda wonder whether it would turn people off scoring even further if they have to start remembering and keeping track of how different packs do scoring differently.

Some games try to ease the complexities of their scoring formula by showing a breakdown in the win screen.  For example maybe the scoring has a "time bonus" and similar other components.  The game may show the numbers roll up for component #1, then for component #2, etc., and in the meantime the total score keeps rolling up, until the final number is reached.  Of course, depending on how complex the scoring system is, even this approach might not be very feasible.

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Even a few of the official ports of Lemmings have scoring (eg. SNES), but I guess since traditionally most Lemmings ports don't do scoring and just show % saved, I think most people are used to focusing on just that.

[mobius]

Maybe what would be more appropriate is to get rid of the score and instead have a breakdown of the scoring components like all the skills used/ time taken etc. This way if your playing the level, say, for challenge purposes it's easy to see how you did.

Since this info would be extensive maybe it could be on a separate page that appears or is optional to go to after the level is over.

[namida]

That's not a bad idea at all.

Any suggestions on what should be on that page? The obvious ones are:
- Lemmings killed / saved / "in limbo" (ie: not saved, but not killed either, just left in the level upon hitting Esc or running out of time)
- Skills used
- Time taken

[geoo]

This is precisely what I feel is best too.

For challenge purposes, the following are relevant:
- lemmings saved
- number of skills used when required save amount was achieved
- maybe the total skills used too (as a max percent tiebreaker)?
- time until save requirement reached, time until last lemming saved?

[namida]

I've added a poll here to get people's opinions; I myself am leaning strongly towards the "no score system, do have statistics available" option.

[namida]

I think it's pretty clear what the preferred option here is - no scoring system, but do allow some in-depth statistics to be viewed.

I will leave this topic open to allow for discussion of what exactly should be viewable.