[NeoLemmix] Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!

[namida]

Spoiler

I'm sorry, I forgot that you don't have 3 builders on this level.

[Crane]

D'oh! Of course!

[Proxima]

mobius asked me again about my music preferences, and I had a new idea "Waltz in C Sharp Miner" should really play to the music it's named after. How about it?

[Crane]

Hmmm - I'm not entirely certain if it works as Lemmings music, but I'll have to try it for real before passing judgement (can NeoLemmix accept Ogg Vorbis files?).

I'm starting to think that the "Tetris B" music should be replaced though because it seems to be annoying for most people, or at least namida (recall his comment when he first started playing the level in question!)

[namida]

Perhaps consider replacing it with a remix that has a bit more substance to it?

(can NeoLemmix accept Ogg Vorbis files?)

Indeed it can. Though I generally don't recommend using them built into the EXE (but rather, in music packs); but this is only an issue of filesize, nothing else.

[Proxima]

Sorry, I'm still struggling to find my way around this music editing thing I think this is an IT of the piece. I haven't worked out how to make it loop correctly.

I'd certainly be open to replacing it with a remix if anyone can find a good one.

If we end up not using this piece, my second preference would be simply for the level to play Korobeiniki, to match its earlier version (Minesweeper Lemmings). Scratch that, Korobeiniki is used in another level very close to Waltz.

[ccexplore]

Sorry, I'm still struggling to find my way around this music editing thing I think this is an IT of the piece. I haven't worked out how to make it loop correctly.

I'm not sure I did it correctly either (it is surprisingly hard to test this other than just actually trying it out via NeoLemmix or whatever game engine this music is destined for, which I'm not ready to set up at the moment), but try this and see if it works better.  The looping is not carefully set, I just set it to loop back to beginning when it reaches the very end, assuming it works.

The thing that makes it so hard to test is that, it looks like a lot of media players tend to ignore any built-in looping in MOD-type files, probably because most of the time you want to play the music as part of a playlist, and thus wouldn't want any built-in looping to hijack the playlist and prevent the player from moving into other music in the list.  Even with specialized MOD editing tools, sometimes it seems you have to dig around for the right setting to make it to honor the looping-related commands in the ways you expect them to be honored during playback in a game.  (For reference, I believe you achieve looping in IT files via use of the Bxx effects command.)  In other words, if this doesn't seem to loop correctly, maybe it's because of the player and not intrinsic problem with the contents of the file.  The only surest way to tell is actually trying it out in NeoLemmix or whatever engine this music is destined for, and see hear what happens.

Anyway, as for the music itself, I actually think it could work, at least the OGG version.  Sure, it's solo piano and very concert-y in style and thus very different from the typical Lemmings music, but maybe the better way to think about this one is to treat it like a special graphics level music.  One may not want the "A Beast of a Level" music to be part of the regular rotation, but it works well as a special one-time music for that particular level.  In other words, I actually like the idea that this is going to be different from the other typical music in use.  It helps highlight the deliberate nature of choosing this music for the title reference.  But I can understand other people finding it distracting for this one level to be potentially so musically different from other ones in the pack.

I call out the OGG version specifically because the IT version sounds inferior in comparison.  It's probably impossible to fully replicate the OGG experience in the confines of the IT format, but maybe further digging around the Internet can find you at least a better IT/MOD version, including possible remixes that might work better stylistically with other Lemmings music used in the pack.  I don't think it's worth our time trying to manually improve on this particular IT version, especially when it looks like neither you nor I really have the skills nor time to handle this sort of thing.

Still, I provided this updated version just to see if you can validate whether looping works in the game with this version.  Then at least I know I'm doing it right, and can help add the looping for you whenever you manage to find other IT/MOD candidates.  It's also fortuitous that this music is so loop-friendly, the ending and the beginning seems to loop perfectly as-is (ie. unlike other music where the ending tends to sound too final to be loopable).

[namida]

Bxx effects set the pattern number to jump to, while Cxx sets which line within that pattern. A Bxx without a Cxx on the same line jumps to the start of the pattern; I don't think I've ever tried seeing what Cxx by itself does but I would assume jumps to the line number in the current pattern.

[GigaLem]

A little off topic
but i was bored one day and made this

[namida]

Solved up to the end of Carnage now. A lot of great levels so far!

Some of the ones that really stood out to me - enough so that I can recognize and remember them as good levels looking back at them later (although some I had seen before, which might also contribute to them standing out more) - were:

Spoiler

Hootenanny 11 "Access Denied" (Ben Bryant)
Hootenanny 14 "Brick City" (Gronkling)
Hootenanny 27 "Crossing Paths" (Shvegait)
Hootenanny 30 "The Final Countdown" (Crane)
Devious 3 "Two Minute Warning" (Martin Zurlinden)
Devious 17 "Lempire State Building" (hubbart)
Devious 19 "Use the grey matter for this one" (Minim)
Devious 27 "Lemming Cathodes" (Crane)
Frenzy 3 "The Climbing Frame" (JHIsan)
Frenzy 4 "Faithful Friends" (Crane)
Frenzy 7 "Nemesis" (Crane)
Frenzy 10 "Dilemma" (Fernito)
Frenzy 16 "Sharing a Climber" (Crane)
Frenzy 17 "A Cut To The Quick" (Twig)
Frenzy 25 "Lemming Sold Seperately" (grentiie20)
Frenzy 29 "The Daedalus" (Ellischant)
Pain 1 "Hello, Goodbye" (Clam)
Pain 2 "A Giant Leap For Lemmingkind" (Martin Zurlinden)
Pain 10 "Balancing Act" (Gronkling)
Pain 11 "Leave No Lemming Behind" (Ben Bryant)
Pain 15 "Clockwork Pink" (Ellischant)
Pain 29 "Utopia" (pieuw)
Carnage 2 "Lemming Recycling Plant" (Clam)
Carnage 4 "Wish you had them?" (Gronkling)
Carnage 6 "Behind Bars" (Proxima)
Carnage 9 "Training Zone Omega" (Clam)
Carnage 11 "A Sea of Purest Green" (pooty)
Carnage 14 "Fall and DIE" (Clam)
Carnage 26 "This is a Gate Level" (Insane Steve)
Carnage 27 "Finding a place to stay" (geoo)
Carnage 28 "Vegetation Reign" (dodochacalo)

EDIT: In regards to Armageddon 1, I feel there's very little setting this level apart from its earlier version, despite the earlier version being in the first rank. The only changes are the time limit is halved (and it's still plenty, the time isn't tight at all), and the save requirement increased (which does make it harder, but not nearly enough to justify putting them at opposite ends of the pack). In both cases, both variants feel like they should be closer to the middle of the pack.

[mobius]

EDIT: In regards to Armageddon 1, I feel there's very little setting this level apart from its earlier version, despite the earlier version being in the first rank. The only changes are the time limit is halved (and it's still plenty, the time isn't tight at all), and the save requirement increased (which does make it harder, but not nearly enough to justify putting them at opposite ends of the pack). In both cases, both variants feel like they should be closer to the middle of the pack.

This is because the easy version in the first rating has a MUCH simpler solution that the one you found.

Spoiler

If you'd look over the whole level you'll find a second exit on the right. This was intended to be like "No Problemming!"

I put the harder version in Armageddon because earlier on it was given a pretty high difficulty rating. The actual difficulty may have been reduced because it required a lot of precision so I moved the terrain around a little bit to make it easier. Also direct drop wasn't intended on either.

[Crane]

Spoiler

It's actually on the far left - on the Armageddon version, it's replaced with a trap.

You actually backrouted Prize Catch - you're not supposed to use the Miner like that, but I'll give you that victory, since you used all the tools!  Well done!

Spoiler

The left exit is a troll exit - there is a solution that uses it, but you run out of time!

The Lemmings on the left don't go to their deaths - that wall next to the shredder is too high.  What you're meant to do is Climb and Dig to get rid of that thin wall (where you used the Miner), and then "catch" the Climber with another Lemming, using a Builder akin to "Sharing a Climber?", when he tries to climb that tall column below the left trapdoor.

After watching your solution of "Spiralling Snowstorm", I'm starting to think that I backrouted that one.  Here's my replay, which results in a Basher and most of the Climbers left over.

[Crane]

Here's one for Dodochacalo: an apparent backroute for Vegetation Reign (I save 13/20 and I have a Bomber and Basher left over).

[Proxima]

To remove namida's backroute on Rhapsody in Blue, please delete the large crystal at the lower-left of the main terrain block.

[Crane]

Best way to remove backroutes in our levels: have namida and IchTol0t rip them apart!