[NeoLemmix] Revenge of the Lemmings 2.0!

[mobius]

hey no spoilers! put that in spoiler tag Crane. It's the 'radtiation' symbol.

[Crane]

I thought that was vague enough though, as it's not a complete solution (other than the replay download).  I guess I messed up again.

EDIT: Doubly so because I somehow misread namida's post and thought he was after hints.

[mobius]

that's okay- namida (or anyone else) probably didn't see it in time.

[namida]

I definitely think it needs to be in a higher ranking. Especially if it's been touched by IchoTolot. :p

that's okay- namida (or anyone else) probably didn't see it in time.

Yeah, it was spoiler tagged by the time I saw it.

[namida]

I've beaten it now. The actual solution, in the end, didn't seem too tricky; but based on the difficulty I had finding it (and so did Crane, it seems), I'd still say it should probably be moved to a later rank...
Frenzy is definitely my favorite rank so far. Almost entirely good levels here, and even at worst they're "okay", not "bad". A lot of them are short, puzzle-type levels, which tend to be my favorite.

It'd also seem, based on the comment, that my solution is different to Crane's, because...

Spoiler

Mine did use the mesh/ball tower.

EDIT: Indeed, my solution is very different from Crane's, apart from the very end bit.

[Proxima]

Non-solution to Frenzy 20 (Four Lemmings and a Funeral), substantially different from the actual solution, that fails by a fraction of a second. I'm pointing this out because it's not ideal for a solution to fail this narrowly, as the player may get into the rut of thinking it's the right solution and just needs tweaking to work (as Simon has pointed out in the various arguments about time limits).

[Crane]

One thing I want to bring up about Frenzy 26 again... if it's an old level whose intended solution is unknown, is it really a wise idea to remove the climber? Granted, I haven't yet found a solution that would use it, but if there is an intended solution that uses it, it would possibly pull the level back to the Frenzy rating (and hence save rearrangement of the pack, which is a tricky operation due to the secret levels and talismans).

[mobius]

Take it like a lemming; original had quite a large number of solutions and was easy [imo]. I honestly don't remember if I ever found one that used the climber. But without the steel this allowed a lot of other things possible. Not to mention the non-working trap in the original which we don't know was intended or not.
I tried to find a solution that involved trapping lemmings in the mesh but never did. I'm alright with this level having a few different solutions as is, because it's still hard.

It makes things easier to re-arrange a level if you swap it with another. If you can find a later level which is easier and could replace that one.

If the climber actually has no real use it would make the level harder with it in because it would be a red-herring. But just because I couldn't find a solution with it doesn't mean there isn't one.

[Proxima]

It makes things easier to re-arrange a level if you swap it with another. If you can find a later level which is easier and could replace that one.

Well, I pointed out a while ago that "It's a long way up" (Carnage 15) is overtiered....

[Crane]

Just a random thing.  I think namida backrouted "A Bid Farewell", a famous historical level by Matthias Witt, because I remember reading an interview somewhere where...

Spoiler

... he mentions the mechanic of joining three separate points with a single Builder.

As a result, I think this was his intended solution, although theoretically I don't have to cut my bridge short and thus can save a Basher - I should still have a couple of seconds to spare, although I do try to be as efficient as I can with the other tools to save time.  What do you guys think?

Spoiler

Fixing namida's backroute, while not spoiling the aesthetic of the level, would be as simple as putting a bit of extra terrain to the right of the steel block, so any lemmings that walk back to the left will follow the last Basher's tunnel into oblivion.  I can't see that opening up any other backroutes.  NOTE: Bashing into the steel block to turn the Climber early on (so he doesn't climb the post and hit the underside of the first bridge) is incorrect because this removes enough terrain that he can't drop down on top of it later on to release the horde.

[Crane]

So I've updated "Oil Refinery" to fix namida's backroute as well as others that I had spotted myself.  Admittedly the extra scenery does take away the "oil refinery" theme slightly as well as the effect of seeing the Lemmings pretty much walking the plank.  My question is though... given everything is patched now, is this still a "Pain" level?

[Proxima]

I have just noticed that The Hotel in Hell has incorrect stats: 2 bashers, 2 miners, save 25/30. I checked in the Cheapo editor and the level should have the same stats as the Lix version: 5 bashers (only 4 are needed, but this gives a 2-2-2-5-5 pattern), 0 miners, save 24/30. In fact, I don't think it's possible to save 25 with the intended solution.

[Crane]

I confess I haven't got that far conventionally to check - I'm still stuck on Armageddon 7 (another one of your levels actually, Proxima!).  I sent möbius a load of updates and recommendations as well - just need to be patient now.

By the way, namida... good to see you back and getting stuck on Carnage - hopefully by the time Armageddon comes around it won't be 1 level per video!

ADDENDUM: I don't think you were supposed to be able to bash under the floors like that in "Please save us!" - I guess the steel plates are too high.

[namida]

The secret level trigger in...

Spoiler

"Fall and DIE!"

... is extremely annoying. It's somewhere that one might reasonably think is part of the solution; not out-of-the-way where it's unlikely to accidentally run into it, or at least not by simply assigning one skill that the terrain looks like you're meant to use there. I'd suggest putting it somewhere a bit less in the way, such as perhaps...

Spoiler

on the top of that dirt lump at the bottom-right

[Crane]

Not sure if it would work there because...

Spoiler

... you can't reach it with a Climber due to the nook in the rock, and the steel plates stop you from dropping onto it from above.  I might instead suggest putting it on the edge of oblivion to the right of that rock, so you can reach it by bashing through that bottom right rock (and possibly from the top right too).

I do agree though that it isn't in a good place.