DOS or NeoLemmix?

[607]

Hi, it's me again!
Nowadays, levels often go like this:
I figure out the solution in 5 minutes.
I spend 25 more minutes to execute it without having to start over due to one little mistake or bad luck.

I'm starting to think it'd be better to continue playing in NeoLemmix, so I can rewind and do things frame per frame. That also seems a little odd, though... because well, all those fails and things are still part of the game, and I feel like they should happen, because it's also about precision and agility instead of only the puzzle.

What do you think?

[ccexplore]

I think you pretty much answered your own question here.  It would seem that most people here would much rather spend 25 minutes on the solution and only 5 minutes on execution, and find the other way around detracts from their experience.  I also suspect most have better other games in mind if they actually want to pursue a gaming experience where precision and agility are king.

Of course, it's also worth keeping in mind that no one's forcing you to use rewind and frame-stepping in NeoLemmix; one can always choose to not use them if (s)he feels using them takes away some important part of the gaming experience.

[mobius]

Of course, it's also worth keeping in mind that no one's forcing you to use rewind and frame-stepping in NeoLemmix; one can always choose to not use them if (s)he feels using them takes away some important part of the gaming experience.

I'm sort of changing subject but I really wanted to highlight this. ^I agree totally. And it ticks me off when people say things like "well if that exists in the game then everyone's going to abuse it!" Just use some freaking self control dammit.
Some feature should not be excluded from a game because someone might use it in a way that isn't to your liking. Having a feature there doesn't mean you have to use it; and I don't find anything wrong with not using some things.
Somewhere else I was involved in an argument about this. The other party basically said that leaving precision aiding features out meant that would help prevent people from making levels that were really difficult. It sounds nice in theory but in reality was not true at all; tons of really difficult levels exist [which are made so difficult in part because of lack of user friendly features]
I think it's sort of true with Lemmings; before NeoLemmix you didn't have one frame movement (on old Lemmix) yet tons of really precision demanding levels exist on the database.
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More on topic; I think it's almost an evolution type of situation.
When I played Lemmings when I was young I liked it that way [MS DOS]. Those failures and issues were part of the experience and made it fun. But now that I'm older and things are different, I can't stand to play on DOS anymore. It feels like a chore. NeoLemmix all the way.

[namida]

If you prefer the DOS-style mechanics, keep in mind that Lemmix (regular version, not NeoLemmix) does have most (if not quite all) of the fine-control features NeoLemmix has, while virtually perfectly emulating DOS mechanics. However, this can be a downside too - it means you also have to be aware of glitches, and deal with the limitations of the DOS format / mechanics.

[607]

Of course, it's also worth keeping in mind that no one's forcing you to use rewind and frame-stepping in NeoLemmix; one can always choose to not use them if (s)he feels using them takes away some important part of the gaming experience.

You've got a point there. But, there's a reason I don't think that way: when playing levels made with LemEdit, you can't use any of these new features. When playing levels made with NeoLemmix, you can also choose to not use any of these new features. The difference though: when making the levels for LemEdit, the creators didn't use the new features either. When making the levels for NeoLemmix, though, they probably did.
So NeoLemmix levels may have lots of levels that cause high precision in early levels because the creator thinks you'll be using frame-stepping anyway.


But I realise now: it's just a choice I can make. If I do choose to play in NeoLemmix, it's not like I'm dishonouring the original game, and that was one of the things that held me back. But it's my own choice, you all made me realise. Thanks.

[Simon]

Agree with möbius 100 %. Lemmings-level playing games have become tools. Willfully dumbed-down tools are rarely a good buy. On the other hand, you don't have to use every blade of a swiss-army knife.

Once you decide what you want, this problem will have solve itself. :-)

Levels built with Lemedit can be read in by contemporary games.

-- Simon

[namida]

Levels built with Lemedit can be read in by contemporary games.

-- Simon

This is a good point to be aware of - not 100% sure about Lemmini; but Lemmix, NeoLemmix, SuperLemmini and Lix can all definitely load DOS levels. Also be aware that LemEdit / traditional Lemmix levels (they're virtually indistinguishable, without looking closely at the raw data, and even then it's sometimes impossible to tell - certianly they'll both work on either DOS or Lemmix) may still be tested in (non-Neo) Lemmix, which gives access to the same fine control features. So it can't be assumed they were created without those in mind.

[607]

Lemmix it is! But, um, how do the cheat codes work? I entered CHEATCODES for the password, and it said it activated something. Now I'm still unsure as to how I'd get to a new level.
Edit: never mind, I figured it out. It hadn't activated correctly for some reason, but it works now.
I really like this version!

[GigaLem]

It does this
say if you we're playing GigaLems and you put in CHEATCODES
for example just put in SCORCHING15  and you'll skip to scorching 15

[607]

Yeah, I found it out, something was not working at first.

Another question: is there directional select? I found a few posts about it elsewhere on these forums, but couldn't really understand whether it's included or not.

[607]

Oh wow, gameplay is so different now, but I like it very much!
For some reason the FX keeps stopping to work after a while though, does anyone know why? I'm using the DOS music pack.

[namida]

Are you accidentally hitting S? That turns the sound off until the end of the level.

NeoLemmix has directional select, regular Lemmix does not. This is because DOS didn't have it either, and regular Lemmix tries to accurately replicate it - so it should not be possible to, say, select a lemming in Lemmix that you couldn't've selected in DOS. There are shortcuts (eg: press minus to go back a second, instead of playing the level from the beginning exactly the same; or right-click the release rate to insta-max it, rather than pause, increasing it, then unpause), but ultimately you cannot execute a solution in Lemmix that couldn't be executed under DOS.

[607]

Yes, I noticed.
Thanks for mentioning th "s" thing, that might be the problem. I only knew about "m".
The only NeoLemmix shortcut that doesn't seem to work is middle-click for pause.

[namida]

That one is also exclusively NeoLemmix. Assuming you are indeed using NeoLemmix, are you actually *clicking* the scroll wheel, not just scrolling it?

[607]

Sorry for wording that in a unclear way, I meant it worked in NeoLemmix but didn't in Lemmix. But I understand now that was intended.