Cheapo content to NeoLemmix conversion

[namida]

I don't plan to anytime soon.

[McAleeCh]

Slightly off-topic - just wanted to pop my head in here to say I didn't realise some of this stuff still existed! Me and my elder brother, under the names McAleeAd and McAleeC (which later gained an extra 'h' on the end, though I think by that point I'd stopped doing levels), were the ones who created the "Madness" set of levels back in the day, along with many of the styles such as the Monkey IsLemms (still remember having fun doing the Lemming sprites on that one), the Shadow style (which we botched together from a combination of DOS and SNES Lemmings 2 screenshots with some recoloured parts of the red brick ONML style) and more. As I recall, the first style we ever did was the "Islanders" style my brother made, which was basically the Cheapo Beach style with different Lemmings/Exit and brown clams. I was quite a young kid at the time - don't even think I was quite at secondary school age, so this is going way, way back!

As I recall, I don't think Cheapo was available online when we started making levels - certainly if it was then it wasn't easily findable. All we knew of it was some screenshots on the creator's website. I seem to recall my brother eventually e-mailing the creator (who I see also frequents these forums - hi!) and asking if we could have a copy to play around with, though no idea if I'm remembering correctly there!

I recognise the "Ghost Pirate LemChuck" and "In a Dark, Dark House" levels from the screenshots. I also remember doing one in the Shadow style shaped like a massive "21", as well as a very tall red-brick level with both inverted and normal gravity. No idea if that's in the "Madness" set, though, and it sounds like NeoLemmix wouldn't support that one anyway. I seem to recall my design process usually involved making something I thought looked cool and fitting the gameplay around that, rather than planning out intricate puzzles, so apologies if anyone thinks my levels are a bit rubbish! Would love to have a crack at making some new ones now - will have to look into how to do things with NeoLemmix at some point.

Some of the stuff we did - such as the unfinished "Dust" style - was just messing around and never really meant to be distributed. I seem to recall doing a style based on the Lemmings concept animation (with the red Lemmings that have blue hair), but again that was just messing around, so I don't know if it was ever distributed. Truth be told, I have no idea how our stuff actually got online - I think my brother must have just uploaded a ton of the stuff we had laying around after finding a Cheapo level community in later years or something. Good job too, or all of that stuff would've been lost to time!

I'd be very interested in taking a trip down memory lane and seeing what we put together back then - I know there's a chunk of stuff that's been converted (and adapted) to work with NeoLemmix, and I'll definitely have to check that out at some point. However, I'd also be very interested in checking them out in their native Cheapo environment and experiencing them exactly as me and my brother created them back in the day. I don't suppose any kind soul would be able to point me to where I can find the game, as well as the "Madness" level pack and accompanying styles?

[namida]

You can get Cheapo here: http://teamhellspawn.com/lemmings/tools.htm

However, it doesn't tend to work very well on newer PCs, which was one of the main motivations in creating tools for converting the content to NeoLemmix. If you've got an old PC lying around, you could try firing that up to run it.

Anyway, welcome to the forums!

[McAleeCh]

Thanks namida - very much appreciated! Should have guessed it might not work well on newer PCs - will have to give it a try and see if I can get it running. If it doesn't work, at least I know I can wait for DynaLem's lovingly-converted NeoLemmix versions to be able to experience most of the levels we made back then.

It's really great to see that you've added support for Cheapo levels (and, I see, its predecessor Copycat Lemmings too) in NeoLemmix. I know the Cheapo levels don't function 100% the same, since the inverted gravity isn't supported and the underlying game had some differences to the official ones, but it's great to see that a lot of the content people created for it back in the day hasn't just been forgotten and left to rot. = )

Will definitely have to get hold of NeoLemmix and learn how to make some levels for it. Starting to feel like I've been bitten by the Lemmings bug again after all these years...! = D

EDIT: Seems to run OK on my PC, though runs at an incorrect aspect ratio. Seems like the pack's mostly my brother's levels - a shame a couple of ones I remember don't seem to have made it in. Mind you, I was pretty young back when we were making them so I'm guessing they probably weren't as good as I thought and my brother simply didn't feel they were good enough to include! = P Still, should be a fun trip down memory lane - looking forward to going through them when I have a bit of free time! = D

[namida]

It's really great to see that you've added support for Cheapo levels (and, I see, its predecessor Copycat Lemmings too) in NeoLemmix.

Not directly. NeoLemmix itself can't actually use any Cheapo files; but the NeoLemmix Graphic Set tool can load (but not save) Cheapo graphic sets, while a seperate tool exists to convert levels (it can also convert the graphic sets at the same time; for this purpose, it actually just re-uses some code from the Graphic Set Tool). A few object types were specifically implemented for the purpose of Cheapo compatibility, such as two-way teleporters (which reminds me, I encountered a fairly major glitch with these that I might have to break my "no more updates" rule for...).

Copycat Lemmings's data isn't supported at all; the NeoLemmix version of Copycat Lemmings is actually a conversion of a conversion - it's based off the Cheapo versions of the styles and levels.

[McAleeCh]

Sorry, yes - should have been clearer. I meant it's nice to see that there's support for at least converting some of the existing levels to be compatible with NeoLemmix, rather than implying that NeoLemmix was able to use the original data files. = )

Didn't realise the Copycat Lemmings levels were conversions of Cheapo conversions of those levels, though - I wasn't aware there'd been Cheapo versions of those created, though I suppose it makes sense as the same styles existed in Cheapo too. Sounds like it's been quite the process to preserve those particular levels!

[namida]

Well, the Copycat Lemmings levels were the original "test dummies" for the Cheapo->Neolemmix conversion. So in that way, a lot more effort went into them than did with anything else. But ultimately, Essman provided the Cheapo conversions himself, and I would assume he automated it for the most part; for me, it was no more work than it would've been to use any other randomly-selected Cheapo content. Perhaps my motivation for choosing it was my preference for large fangame-style packs over smaller ones. Certianly, there are slight issues that suggest an automatic conversion; such as some traps that don't function properly due to differences in trigger area sizes (these issues being present in both Cheapo and NeoLemmix; but not in *true* Copycat Lemmings).

[Essman]

As I recall, I don't think Cheapo was available online when we started making levels - certainly if it was then it wasn't easily findable. All we knew of it was some screenshots on the creator's website. I seem to recall my brother eventually e-mailing the creator (who I see also frequents these forums - hi!) and asking if we could have a copy to play around with, though no idea if I'm remembering correctly there!

Hi! I still have the last email from you from 2001. You guys were producing a lot of cool stuff.

[geoo]

Wow McAleeCh, I think you had already left when I joined 10 years ago, but I remember your name from reading the LUDB forum back when archives of it were still available. And of course I remember you as authors of various tile sets. I've seen your name on the Sonic Retro forums too, is that you?
I need to dig out my old Cheapo folder once I have access to it again in a month (I think I lost an a lot more extensive folder at some point in 2005 or so), there might be a bit more in that than in the vanilla Cheapo folder from team hellspawn.

[McAleeCh]

Thanks Essman - glad to hear you liked the stuff we produced way back in the day! = ) I'm impressed you still have our last e-mail to you - I don't think I have anything from that far back anymore, thanks to a combination of changing both machines and accounts several times over the years. It also proves that the memory cheats, as I would've been in secondary school back in 2001 - so it wasn't quite as long ago as I'd thought going from memory.

Also - geoo, yep, same McAleeCh as on the Sonic Retro forums. Hi there! = D Would be very interested to see if you have any more Cheapo goodies that aren't included in the Team Hellspawn pack. I know there were a lot more packed-in levels with the version we originally had back in the day, including many with a pink Spice Girls level style,= as mentioned elsewhere in the topic. Seem to recall one of their heads was a hazard in that one - think it was Posh Spice, but can't remember clearly.

Tried running Cheapo when I had some spare time - got one level to work and then after that it crashed every time it tried to load a pre or post-level text screen, even after restarting the program. So unless I fancy restarting my machine between each level, it looks like I'll be waiting for DynaLem's converted versions before going on a nostalgia trip through our old creations. Might try and see if I can familiarise myself with NeoLemmix in the meantime! = )

[GigaLem]

I dont want to bump this thread (if you can consider this bumping but)
I want to make an edit to the green hill set, like add some objects
Edit: Adding Preplaced lemmings is easier than i though, i worried too much (god i am stupid)
Update:I have made a "Halloween" edit of Green hill, i'll release it after its tested