NeoLemmix Community Pack

[namida]

I do plan to do some major overhauling to the menus at some point (for all players, not just this pack), but it won't be the next release. Possibly the one after that, though.

[namida]

So, I've made an original level that could possibly be used for this. It doesn't really make much use of NeoLemmix features though, apart from having an infinite time limit and having the unused skills entirely removed from the skill bar - it could definitely be designed in traditional Lemmix, and I'm more or less certain it'd be solvable there too. Hard to rank the difficulty, but if I had to guess I'd say late-Taxing?

If anyone else has any levels they'd like to submit, let me know. I'll also probably ask all submitters of NeoLemmix levels to the contests if they want to put their levels up for possible inclusion.

[Nepster]

Nice little level, but it took me three tries to position the blocker correctly, so that the third basher frees it. You are correct with your guess for the difficulty.

PS: I still don't understand why you include bombers in levels with 100% save requirement? Same goes for the newly replaced level in LPII btw.

[namida]

That's a backroute. >_> I thought of another backroute too, time to fix 'em both...

EDIT: Okay, here's a version that should fix both your backroute and my one. I'd have to say, if you thought that the solution you found was "late-Taxing", then maybe I really did underestimate this level... though I still wouldn't say it's harder than Mayhem at most.

As for the bomber thing... there's really no reason to it at all. I guess in some cases, it's just to catch people who aren't paying attention and don't realise the level requires 100%, in other cases there's no reason other than "it makes the level look like it has more skills than it really does". And then of course there's...

Spoiler

Fierce 1, which despite requiring 100%, cannot be solved without using a bomber. But that's a very unique case. But that level is actually the reason why a lot of LPIII 100% levels have bombers, too - so that when the player gets to this level, they might think "oh, just another decoy bomber".

(I guess there's also "any 100%-required level that uses the non-fatal bombers" gimmick, but that's a bit different...)

EDIT: Found yet another backroute, uploaded yet another fixed version. No one downloaded V2 so I guess not much is lost...

EDIT: And already found a backroute in this version too... this solution looks pretty tricky to enforce...

EDIT: Think I've got it. The only change needed from V3 to fix the backroute was actually very small. So, here's V4. Fingers crossed...

EDIT: Seems solid now. Any potential backroute I can think of doesn't work out in practice.

Just for reference, the execution for this shouldn't be very fiddly. It's definitely not one of those levels where you have to keep trying adjusting moves by one or two pixels until everything lines up perfectly; it's one of the ones where once you know what to do, you shouldn't have much (if any) trouble pulling it off.

[Nepster]

Here two more solutions. V4_1 is hopefully pretty near to the intended one, but V4_2 is using the floater a little bit more than is probably wanted.

Spoiler

Solution V4_1 reminds me of möbius's level Conundrum found in mobius2.dat or in MobiLems or in the Lix Community level pack).

I'd have to say, if you thought that the solution you found was "late-Taxing", then maybe I really did underestimate this level... though I still wouldn't say it's harder than Mayhem at most.

I don't consider (late-)Taxing to be hard, e.g. I would consider the first half of Medi in LPDos (late)-Taxing as well.
If solution V4_1 is intended, then it is certainly Mayhem: It uses one trick, that is neither obvious nor used in many other levels.

... I guess in some cases, it's just to catch people who aren't paying attention and don't realise the level requires 100%, in other cases there's no reason other than "it makes the level look like it has more skills than it really does". ...

Well, when I first start the level, additional bombers make me quit the level again just to check the save requirements ("Was it really 100%?").
And what is the intention behind "making the level look like it has more skills than it really does"?
Of course, there are special levels that might require such bombers and if you have an x-of-each-skill level it is certainly OK to include bombers as well. But if you have an odd assortment of other skills, additional bombers just tend to confuse me.

[namida]

Solution 2 shouldn't be too hard to fix. Solution 1 is the intended one.

[Wafflem]

The Xmas style in particular is out of place due to the different theme (and otherwise similarity to the Snow style); for Horror it's a matter of the much higher graphics quality than the others. Thinking more about it, Sega is probably fine...

Yes, I would also like the Sega style to be allowed in the community pack.

Are the Genesis versions of the official styles also okay to use for this pack?

Also, how about VGASPECs? Although, for me, I don't think we should use them since we already have so many styles that we can use for the pack.

[Wafflem]

Found a backroute for the Winning Edge.

[namida]

That backroute is the same as Nepster's second solution, so I'm already aware of it. Just haven't got around to doing a fixed version yet.

EDIT: Okay, this should be solid. And in keeping with several other now-patched backroutes, it also makes that one just not work.

Also, I got the okay from Crane to include the two versions of "Precarious Construction" in this pack. DynaLem; any levels from your small packs that you would like to put forward for inclusion? (I'll also go through them again to see if there's any in particular that stand out to me as possible candidates).

[namida]

Got the okay from Nepster to include "Lost in Colourland". This brings us to four levels so far.  I PM'd everyone who's submitted a NeoLemmix level to the contest to ask how they feel about including their submissions, apart from Giga, since I know the only level he's entered comes from a large pack he's working on.

In response to DynaLem's questions above (sorry, didn't see them before):

Genesis styles should be fine. I don't know if it's maybe a bit pointless, but the other thing is that they can always be quickly switched to the regular versions later if there's any decision against it at some point.
VGASPECs, I don't have any problem with them in general, but I don't know that we'd want to have too many of them.


As always, if anyone feels differently about anything I've said, speak up! I don't want to just be setting all the rules here, it is a community pack after all.

[Wafflem]

Sure! You can use any of my levels in any of my packs (including the Unused Gimmick one) for the community pack. 

I'll get back to you on which levels to submit, but if there's any levels you like, let me know and I'll PM them to you since my packs are encrypted.

However, some of these levels use the NeoLemmix skills (most of the ones in pack 2, specifically), so I'm not sure if they should be included.

If you use any of the secret levels, I'm fine with them being among regular levels.

[namida]

NeoLemmix skills are fine, if there's enough levels using them. If I create more, they're likely to use them; it just so happens that for The Winning Edge, it worked better without them IMO.

[Wafflem]

For the NeoLemmix Skills Levels, I think levels from my packs like "The Ice Bucket Challenge," "The Cracks," "Level Nein" (I may likely make a harder version of this one), "Under the Boardwalk," "Unlock Your Lemmings" and "The GAURDIEN" could work.

Then again, I'm the only one aside from you who's made levels with the NeoLemmix Skills so far.

Some level suggestions for you to add:
1. This Cheapo test level, which looks like a very fun level that's not hard. If you won't allow the Cheapo graphics since they have the same RGB quality as the Horror tileset, then this level can easily be remade in the Tree style.

2. (warning, this is Neo Lemmings Plus II-related for those who haven't seen the changes in the Genius rating yet):

Spoiler

I was surprsied that you replaced Genius 18 "A Little Breather" with a harder level. While I do agree that it's can be awkward for an easy level to be in the Genius rating, I felt that this level should not be removed entirely (especially since the Tree style is rarely used for this pack). I still felt that this one was a decent challenge, and should come back in this pack.

[namida]

That could be worth considering. The old Medi 8 may also make a good addition; this was a level I personally didn't care much for but a lot of people seemed to like it, at least enough to question why I removed it rather than certain other levels in the V7 update.

[namida]

Got one more submission, from DynaLem. "The GAURDIAN!" from his new level pack.

That aside, I also made another level. Even though I haven't been able to find any, I have a strong suspicion there's some backroutes hiding in this one; intended solution should be approximately the same difficulty-wise as (or maybe a little bit harder than) "The Winning Edge". This one's also a bit more "NeoLemmix-y"; it has vertical scrolling and uses Platformers.

That's 6 submissions so far. 1 Fire, 1 Brick, 1 Rock, 2 Tree and 1 Psychedelic.

Remember, anyone is welcome to submit levels! And if you don't agree with one of the rules, discuss it! In particular, I'm thinking of loosening up the "no levels from big packs" to simply "no levels from big Lemmix/NeoLemmix packs" (ie: allowing converted levels from big Lemmini packs; of course it goes without saying that it has to be your levels (or with the author's permission) that you submit). Of course in this case, you're encouraged to modify them to make use of NeoLemmix features, but it isn't essential for every level.