Lemmings Plus Series

[namida]

All Lemmings Plus packs have now been updated to use PNGs - there's no changes to the content (apart from that one bugfix in Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack), it's just future-proofing so that the NXPs are ready for when MAIN.DAT support is dropped.

[namida]

Lemmings Plus III (and its bonus pack), IV and Omega have been updated again to restore the color-shifting floater and glider sprites. No changes in the new versions apart from that.

[namida]

I tested all the intended solution replays for all games on NeoLemmix V1.42n.

The update-friendliest were Lemmings Plus I and Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack, both of which didn't have a single broken level. The most problematic in terms of absolute number of levels was Lemmings Plus Omega (about 12 broken replays; one of which I quickly realised would not have been broken had I waited several hours before trying it*), while in relative terms it was Holiday Lemmings Plus, with 10 broken replays - out of 12 total levels (with Glimmer 3 and Arctic 2 being the ones that remained working).

The most surprising was the replay to Nice 19 of Lemmings Plus II breaking - it was in fact the only one in LPII that did.

None of them actually required any level changes; only the replays had to be redone. All levels are still possible.

* If you've solved the level I'm referring to here, you'll both know why this would make a difference, and know exactly which level I'm talking about.

[Wafflem]

Just letting you know that the same problem I've reported in MobiLems II also occurs in LPI, LPII, LPII Bonus, the Flashbacks games and Omega.

[namida]

This is intentional. They no longer contain any embedded versions of the official game musics; they just use whatever version is available either in the "music" folder, or if none, the one embedded into NeoLemmix.

If you're not getting the proper rotation (the different-from-normal order in Omega, or Track 16 and 17 being in reverse order from normal in LPI), then you most likely have an outdated version of the NXPs. But yeah, if it's just not the expected versions of the tracks, that's normal.

[namida]

I'm working on fully-V1.43n-compatible (ie: direct drop free, tested with new climber mechanics) updates to these packs.

EDIT: I'm also trimming out the secret levels, gimmick levels, etc, and will be putting together a "removed levels" pack.

Lemmings Plus I: Complete. 26 broken replays + 9 broken talisman replays. Two levels required changes.
Lemmings Plus II: Complete. 9 levels replaced (some with formerly-secret levels, others with Bonus Pack levels). Those aside, 16 broken replays + 10 broken talisman replays. Some talismans removed, one new one added.
Lemmings Plus II Bonus Pack: Will no longer be a thing; its levels will be put into a "removed levels" pack.
Lemmings Plus III: Complete. I forget how many broken replays, but a lot. Two levels required modification. Several levels were replaced or added. One talisman removed.
Lemmings Plus III Bonus Pack: Will no longer be a thing; its levels will be put into a "removed levels" pack.
Lemmings Plus IV: Complete. 33 broken replays. No levels needed fixing / replacing. One talisman removed.
Lemmings Plus Omega: Complete. 30 broken replays + 1 broken talisman replay. Three levels (two of which share the same layout) required changes. Three talismans were removed.
Holiday Lemmings Plus: Complete. No changes to content, just had to redo a few replays.
Lemmings Plus Flashbacks: A few cosmetic changes (to account for changed positions of some LPIII levels).
Lemmings Plus Flashbacks II: No changes needed at all.

I'm also adding solution replay downloads to the links in the first post as I go through this.

[Wafflem]

Since it looks like gimmicks and secret levels will be ultimately culled and the only gimmicks that are worth keeping are Frenzy, Karoshi, Rising Water, Zombies and Ghosts (and maybe Deadly Sides), how will this then affect LPII & Bonus, LPIII & Bonus, and the Playtime rank of Omega?

Omega shouldn't be overly affected I guess, since all the gimmicks are in one rank.

[namida]

One gimmick level missing from each rank... one secret level that needs a new home... sounds like that works out well. If Frenzy is dropped too, there's another slot that needs to be filled; levels from the bonus pack can be used for this (the original but non-gimmick/frenzy levels, and some of the frenzy levels that also work as normal levels eg. Superlemming II, Hero Frenzy). Essentially, get rid of the "bonus packs" and merge the compatible levels into the main pack, to replace the non-compatible levels. In LPII's case, maybe I'd have to put together a couple of new levels - or more likely, non-gimmick levels based off the existing levels.

To be honest, I'm thinking I should make these changes in the current set of updates. Of course, the removed levels would remain available as a "removed levels" pack (albeit one that's mostly only compatible with older NeoLemmix versions, eventually). Now that I think about it, LPI's Pre-V7 levels should probably go in there too.

Perhaps it's a good time to start thinking about that... let's see:

LPII
Levels that need replacing: 9 (2 per rank, except 1 in Cunning)
Available levels:
- The existing secret levels (except Cunning's one).
- "When You Wish Upon A Lemming"
- "SUPERLEMMING II: Desert Quest" - could work without Frenzy / Superlemming
- The repeats of Nice 9, Cheeky 10 and Sneaky 4 from the Bonus Pack
- "A Little Breather" (formerly removed level), maybe?

LPIII
I don't know if much needs to be done here, since all the gimmick levels are secret levels. Perhaps the unique and usable levels from the bonus pack can be added to the main pack either as an extra rank, or just a larger number of total levels. Dodgy 18 can be moved into a normal level position (or the bonus rank), since it doesn't actually involve a gimmick.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, there is Dodgy 6 and Fierce 5 that will need replacements... perhaps something from the bonus pack (perhaps Seven-Way Security) can replace the former, while Dodgy 18 replaces the latter...

LP Omega
Just drop those levels altogether.


EDIT: Lemmings Plus I reuploaded, with the Pre-V7 levels removed. These will be added to the "Removed Levels" pack.

The updated level images for those that have changed (Medi 7, Psycho 6) have been put up, too.

[namida]

Lemmings Plus II Changes (WIP)

Nice 9: Replaced with "Lemming Collider", minus the gimmicks, and with some slight alterations to the stats.
Nice 15: Replaced with Nice 21.

Cheeky 8: Replaced with "A Little Breather" (level has been renamed and skillset is slightly increased).
Cheeky 10: Replaced with Cheeky 21.

Sneaky 4: Replaced with Sneaky 21.
Sneaky 14: Replaced with Genius 21.

Cunning 19: Replaced with "When You Wish Upon A Lemming".

Genius 9: Replaced with "Now Let's Try The Normal Way" from the Bonus Pack (renamed, of course).
Genius 16: Replaced with "SUPERLEMMING II: Desert Quest", now renamed just "Desert Quest".

All levels except Genius 20 have been confirmed possible to achieve the intended solution on V1.43n, without any changes to the levels themself.
Genius 20 is still possible to beat, but requires a completely different solution.
Excluding where entire levels have been replaced, 15 other levels replays broke but the levels themself remained solvable (including Genius 19, w00t!).

All the removed levels, and all bonus pack levels (except the ones that have been copied into the main game, since they all end up being similar or identical to how they were) will be added to the "removed levels pack".

Next task is replay verification, and tidying up talismans (removing those that applied to now-removed levels, copy relevant ones across from the bonus pack, perhaps add a couple more if needed, then verify that all the replays for them still work).

[Wafflem]

I do wonder about one level in LPII - Cunning 20 "Secrets of the Lemmings".

The level's main purpose was to inform the player of the secret level locations. However, now that the secret levels are removed, and this level is way too easy to even be in Cunning, should this level itself be ultimately culled and replaced with the repeats of either Cheeky 10 "Floater Frenzy" or Sneaky 4 "Overflow Zone" (I'm hoping for the former since there aren't enough Tree levels, and that level is actually very good) from the Bonus Pack?

Also, switch "Time for Plan B" with "Camp of Curses". "Camp of Curses" is way too easy to be in Sneaky and is easier than even the later Cheeky levels.

LPIII
I don't know if much needs to be done here, since all the gimmick levels are secret levels. Perhaps the unique and usable levels from the bonus pack can be added to the main pack either as an extra rank, or just a larger number of total levels. Dodgy 18 can be moved into a normal level position (or the bonus rank), since it doesn't actually involve a gimmick.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, there is Dodgy 6 and Fierce 5 that will need replacements... perhaps something from the bonus pack (perhaps Seven-Way Security) can replace the former, while Dodgy 18 replaces the latter...

I like your idea for how Dodgy 6 and Fierce 5 should be replaced, and that should definitely be a thing. As a side note, this would ensure every rank has at least one locked exit puzzle .

However, how about the other normal levels - "Gotcha Again! =P" "You Knew It Was Coming" "No Time to Die Even Now" "Trivia Time" "The Lemmings Forums Level"? I would also like to see Hero Frenzy in there, and I'm very sure that In the Fren-zone can be adapted into a normal level. "You Knew..." and "No Time to Die" especially need to appear to maintain the Lemmings Plus staple of having at least one of each for the main games. "Flying on Broken Wings" and "The Strange Construct" are also viable options.

I would add to the total number of levels instead of creating a bonus rank. Especially since culling all gimmick and frenzy levels would leave it at 59 regular levels total, which is way too low for LPIII.

[namida]

That's a good point about Cunning 20. I hadn't thought about that.

Re: LPIII Bonus Pack levels, Trivia Time (which for the record is a gimmick level, though easily adaptable into a normal one) and The Lemmings Forums Level would feel out-of-place in LPIII IMO. Likewise, "Gotcha Again" seems a bit excessive for one pack, not to mention it would break the one-VGASPEC-per-rank setup. I would quite like to get You Knew It Was Coming, No Time To Die Even Now and Hero Frenzy into the main game somewhere though. If we also include Flying On Broken Wings and The Strange Construct, as well as Seven-Way Security and The United States Method, that's exactly seven levels - one per rank, plus two to replace the two frenzy levels, with one level left over. The main question would be where should which levels go.

[Wafflem]

My suggestions:

• Move Dodgy 5 "A Lemming For Your Thoughts" to Timid - this one is too easy for a Dodgy level. Flying on Broken Wings works as late-Timid.
• The Strange Construct, Hero Frenzy and Seven-Way Security work in Dodgy.
• I'd still like to see In the Fren-zone adapted into a regular level as this level has a ton of builder tricks, and a lot of puzzle potential if the Frenzy is removed. Plus, the removal of Direct Drop adds to the challenge. In addition, the later ranks lack Sky levels. This one can be placed in Rough, along with the United States Method.
• You Knew It was Coming and No Time to Die Even Now, of course, have to be in Fierce - it's typical of such levels to be in the last rank.

Also, is Bait-And-Switch going to be removed? If so, how will that affect the Rickroll level?

[namida]

LPII update is released.

Changes are mostly as mentioned above. I also replaced "Secrets of the Lemmings" (Cunning 20) with "Another Way Down" from the bonus pack.

There's been a few changes to talismans as well. The following have been removed, mostly due to the associated level being removed but one is simply because mechanics changes make it impossible.

Complete Nice 9 "Something's Not Right Here..." with 100% using only one skill.
Complete Nice 12 "Cactus Island" without any bashers.
Save 75% on Genius 9 "Floater Frenzy".
Save 100% on Cheeky 8 "The Haunted House".

The following new talisman has been added:

Complete Cunning 19 "When You Wish Upon A Lemming" without assigning skills to more than one lemming.

[namida]

My suggestions:

• Move Dodgy 5 "A Lemming For Your Thoughts" to Timid - this one is too easy for a Dodgy level. Flying on Broken Wings works as late-Timid.
• The Strange Construct, Hero Frenzy and Seven-Way Security work in Dodgy.
• I'd still like to see In the Fren-zone adapted into a regular level as this level has a ton of builder tricks, and a lot of puzzle potential if the Frenzy is removed. Plus, the removal of Direct Drop adds to the challenge. In addition, the later ranks lack Sky levels. This one can be placed in Rough, along with the United States Method.
• You Knew It was Coming and No Time to Die Even Now, of course, have to be in Fierce - it's typical of such levels to be in the last rank.

Also, is Bait-And-Switch going to be removed? If so, how will that affect the Rickroll level?

I would rather make as few changes as possible to any main pack levels that aren't already secret, gimmick or frenzy. I do see your point about In The Frenz-zone, though.
I also think Flying On Broken Wings is way too hard for late-Timid. I'll have to think more about what exactly to do with LPIII.

In regards to the Rickroll levels in LPIII and LPIV, they'll still be there, they just won't have the bait-and-switch thing anymore.

[Wafflem]

I feel the removal of the bait-and-switch defeats one purpose of the Rickroll levels. Still though, the levels themselves are still very challenging enough to be left there.

Hmmm...if you want to even out the number of levels in each rank in LPIII and maybe even have more than 17 per rank, perhaps adapt some of the gimmick levels of the LPIII Bonus Pack into regular levels, like what you did with Lemming Collider? I can see levels like Red Remix, Cable Lock, Two For the Price Of One!, Plentiful Plans, Now That's a Lemming!, Detour Time, Strange Connections, Turbulent Affairs and The Lazy Streak being easily adaptable.

If all gimmicks will be culled in a later NeoLemmix update, how then will that affect Lemmings Plus Outtakes* since you plan to move all gimmick/frenzy levels and regular but discarded levels?

*I made that name up and was inspired by the same rank name of the first MobiLems that also had extra levels, but it might work as the title for the removed levels

Also, as a side note, in page with the list of level images for the Nice Rank of LPII, it reads as Mild 1, Mild 2, Mild 3, etc. instead.