Lemmings Plus Series

Started by namida, December 15, 2014, 11:57:16 AM

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Which level did you find harder?

Lemmings Plus Omega II, Sharp 18 "Insanity Plea"
3 (50%)
Lemmings Plus Alpha, Obliteration 14 "Wasted Talent"
3 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 6

namida

#60
Alright... as you all may know, a handful of levels in the Lemmings Plus III bonus pack are currently never-been-beaten.

I just receieved replays of solutions to half of these.

The ones that still remain unbeaten are Moonwalk 5, Teamwork 5, Teamwork 7 and Party 6. (The ones that no longer remain unbeaten are Moonwalk 6, Moonwalk 7, Teamwork 6 and Party 7.)

Outside of Lemmings Plus IV (in which all levels were beaten by testers during the testing period, but a handful had backroute fixes between that and release with the levels not being solved again since then), those are the only remaining levels in the series which are unsolved.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

607

Music always just continues playing, and restarts when I press S. I'm on Windows 7.
Also, when sound does work, the sound for the builder nearly running out of stairs sounds quite odd, and much different than what I think it should.

On a note about the game: I think the difficulty level increased a lot from Wimpy 10 onward. Some of them may be because I don't have the intended solution, but I think that compared to Wimpy 1-9 10-14 are suddenly quite hard. Not that that's a problem, I just hadn't expected it, reading this.
Quote from: namida on June 14, 2015, 11:05:17 AM
Glad to hear you're liking it! :D Wimpy isn't much harder for the most part, but the levels do tend to be a bit longer. Once you get to Medi, that's where the difficulty starts to pick up a bit. :)
Do you have videos of these levels' intended solutions on YouTube? I'm really wondering about A Magician Would Be Handy, because I'm not sure if I did it the correct way. I saved 69 Lemmings out of 40 needed though, so I think I did good. :)


IchoTolot

Namida's channel where he has a playthrough:  https: //www.youtube.com/user/jihoon4242

My solutions to the pack can be found here:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Elfo3E1jTl-SHlOy97kwA:

namida

In general, if a level gives you a large amount of skills (like that one does), it probably doesn't have a single intended solution, but is just a matter of "do anything that works". :) Even some of the levels with not-so-huge skillsets are of that nature.

Up to the point you're up to, the only level that has a very precise intended solution is Wimpy 12 "Russian Rescue", and that one has never been backrouted so far so I'd be very surprised if any backroutes showed up now.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

607

From now on I should save a replay at moments like that, so I could show you my way of solving it.
Spoiler

I made some Lemmings Athletes, and I placed a blocker at the places they could fall off. I used the remain Lemmings to build up to the place where the climbers went to. While letting the remaining Lemmings build the Athletes also started building, at the other side, to prevent the non-floater Lemmings from splatting. After the no-splat stairs were done, I dug through the obsolete part, and finished the stairs that would let the remaining Lemmings go over to the side with the no-splat stairs. I then used a miner and a basher to get under the steel opening. To get up to the exit, I used builders and exploders. It was quite interesting, although messy :P
Also, I liked Russian Rescue.

Wafflem

#65
I would have voted for Lemmings Plus Omega, but unfortunately that became a side series. I felt that Lemmings Plus Omega is the best of all because the difficulty level is right for me, the LPII and LPIII go very well together, all the gimmicks/frenzies are in one rank, and the levels overall do an excellent job at helping me get accustomed to the NeoLemmix skills. I also liked that there were repeats in the game. Though I was disappointed at the extreme lack of locked exit puzzles.

I felt it didn't make sense for it to become a side series, because what if, say, a newcomer to NeoLemmix and Lemmings Plus goes straight to LPIV from LPIII, is unaware of the new skills, and skips the side series, then they suddenly see skills that are unfamiliar to them?

LPO would have worked as LPIV, while LPIV would have worked as LPV. Then again, there is the upcoming NeoLemmix Introduction Pack.

EDIT: Well, at least it appears in the side entry poll. It should be obvious what I voted for :P
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Wafflem467

Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

namida

All of the Lemmings Plus packs have now been updated to Player V1.35n-C. (NeoLemmix website links are still uploading; DropBox links have been updated fully.)


In regards to why LPO isn't LPIV; mainly, because it doesn't follow the same structure as LPII, LPIII and LPIV do (ie: new graphic sets, few repeats, etc). You may recall that the original intention was to have a "Lemmings Plus III Part 2", which was eventually split into Lemmings Plus III Bonus Pack and Lemmings Plus Omega (with the latter becoming much larger than it originally would've - LPI aside, it's the largest entry in the series at 135 levels).
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

I've (finally) uploaded my solutions to Lemmings Plus IV (except for talisman solutions; although some of these replays also achieve the talisman anyway).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rf2s3l953e0ngnx/LPIV%20Solutions.zip
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Akseli

Hmm why to close the original levelpack topics? :P I'd guess that people that browse the forums would search discussion related to packs in their own topics in the easiest way.

Sorry for the late answers, but better than never. : )

Quote from: namida on July 10, 2015, 02:24:57 AM
QuoteBumpy9: Mechanical Split - A lovely main trick, resembles a bit Genesis Mayhem 1 level.
Hm, I don't remember using this level's trick to solve Genesis Mayhem 1. Or did you mean the layout?
My Genesis Mayhem 1 solution:
Spoiler
Dig down at the left edge of the pillar, then bash to the right to the lower crowd so that only one lemming turns left and builds to the exit. Then, release the now merged group with the basher.


Quote from: namida on July 10, 2015, 02:24:57 AM
QuoteTwisted15: Central Heating - A gem level, really good one! This gave me much trouble and I didn't like the strict timing with the two guys on the top, that made the solution unrealistic before trying it out. Otherwise maybe my favourite level in this pack so far, and should be in Insane imo.

Do you mean at the start or at the end? The part at the start should time itself, while the part at the end isn't too hard if you make use of pausing. :P In fact, often (though certianly not always) I try to set my levels up so the timing works itself out, unless the timing itself is meant to be a major part of the puzzle.

Spoiler
The interaction with the two worker lemmings at the top of the level, see my replay. Still, this might be my favourite level of the pack.


Quote from: namida on July 10, 2015, 02:24:57 AM
QuoteInsane14: Artificially Sweetened - I always compared this level to "No Added Colours or Lemmings" from L1 because of the title and the similarity of the size, tricky solution, high difficulty, and the place in the mid-late last rating of the game. :P

That's pretty high praise, considering that Mayhem 20 was voted the best level from Orig! :) But I also think very highly of this level; not just once it became the last remaining unbeaten level, but in fact from the moment I created it. I'd even go as far as to say that it might be better than Panic Attack from LPII.

Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly enough, I meant exactly what I said with those five points when comparing these levels. I didn't say that I like 'Artificially Sweetened' as much as 'No Added Colours or Lemmings'. Insane14 has its little trick, but

Spoiler
Other than turning around a guy with two platformers, this level is putting skills really precisely in their places, and their places are obvious. But yeah, it's somewhat unique level, and I don't want to let you down if you like this level a lot.

For my taste Panic Attack is way above this level.

namida

So, I'm thinking about making an equivalent to Flashbacks for levels from Omega and IV (and maybe Holiday, too). I'd like some input on levels to consider.

Here's my initial proposals for candidates (note: this is way more than would ultimately be included; this is just an initial list of levels that might be suitable). Since there haven't been voteoffs on these packs, it's based partly on my own thoughts about the levels' quality, and partly on feedback I've received from people who've played them.

Holiday Lemmings Plus

Lemmings Plus Omega

Lemmings Plus IV

Any suggestions for additions (or removals) to the list?
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

Some feedback I got via PM on this (I'll keep it anonymous, since I assume that's why it was sent as a PM rather than posted here);

Holiday Lemmings Plus
Add
Arctic 3 "23:58 12/24", since it's a level that has a lot of different solutions yet all remain challenging.

Lemmings Plus Omega
Add
Perplexing 16 "Wiring Defect"
Perplexing 21 "Wirebreaker", particularly since it's one of the rare cases that extensive use is made of Cloners (without being overly annoying about it).
Perplexing 22 "Pick-a-plan". I didn't have this in my initial list because a lot of feedback suggested it was too simple.
Perplexing 26 "Whisper of the Wind"; the reasoning behind this seemed to be just "because it, like Perplexing 5, ultimately originates from the original NeoLemmix Skills Tutorial pack". I personally didn't include this level as I felt it didn't stand out in any way when compared to other levels, ignoring the "nostalgic" (if it can be called that) value of it.
Mental 1 "Be A Tidy Lemming!"
Mental 4 "Trade of the Tricks", I felt that while this is a fairly unique level, it doesn't exactly stand out hugely as a great level.
Mental 17 "Recycled Lemming Syndrome"

Seconded (ie: the person specifically mentioned agreeing with these choices, instead of saying nothing either way about them)
Puzzling 7 "More Than Just A Dream"
Puzzling 14 "So This Is How It Ends..."
Puzzling 30 "Drop Them Lems"
Perplexing 5 "When They Need It Most"
Perplexing 12 "That's Just How It Is"

Remove
Breezy 20 "The Nuclear Plant"

Lemmings Plus IV
Add
Smooth 13 "Trophy Cabinet", possibly in place of including Mental 10 "Comradical!" (as both are locked exit puzzles in the Clockwork set)
Bumpy 12 "Luck Of The Draw", specifically mentioning it as "my best VGASPEC level so far"
Twisted 1 "Proceed With Caution"
Twisted 2 "Lands of Despair", in particular due to the lack of Wasteland levels otherwise. Though most feedback on this level hasn't been as positive as this person's.
Twisted 5 "The Cooling Vat"
Twisted 14 "A Universal Production", due to the unique radiation / teleporter combo in the solution.

Seconded
Bumpy 5 "Space Race"

Remove
Smooth 20 "Over The Edge", as it's frustrating to solve and out of place (though as seen in the first Lemmings Plus Flashbacks, the ordering in the compilation pack doesn't have to correspond to the ordering in the source pack)
Insane 10 "Comradical!", not as fun without the originally intended trick (which this person was aware of), although they acknowledge that other people think more highly of this level than they do.

Since there's more adds than removes here, this does make the potential list even bigger. Keep the suggestions / feedback coming! :)
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

Still after feedback on the above question! :)

I'm also wondering - regarding the videos on the Lemmings Plus series, is anyone actually finding them interesting / worthwhile? Do you think they serve any purpose that simply offering a replay file doesn't? Is there any points you'd like me to talk more about in them (or less)? Or do most people think it's not worth me continuing with them?
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

607

Quote from: namida on September 29, 2015, 08:34:34 AM
Still after feedback on the above question! :)

I'm also wondering - regarding the videos on the Lemmings Plus series, is anyone actually finding them interesting / worthwhile? Do you think they serve any purpose that simply offering a replay file doesn't? Is there any points you'd like me to talk more about in them (or less)? Or do most people think it's not worth me continuing with them?
To me, they sound very interesting; I haven't watched any of them yet, though, as I'm not really playing Lemmings at the time.

namida

Got more feedback via PM, at least for the Omega and IV levels:

Omega
Add
Puzzling 4 "Not Very Lemming Friendly"
Puzzling 13 "The Martian Lake Beast" (mentioned that this is primarily due to it being good in appearance)
Mental 13 "A Different Kind Of Hero" (specifically mentioned as a good level that involves Cloners)

Remove
Breezy 20 "The Nuclear Plant" (also mentioned by previous person as a removal suggestion)
Puzzling 7 "More Than Just A Dream" (one of my original suggestions, was also seconded)
Puzzling 14 "So This Is How It Ends..."
Perplexing 5 "When They Need It Most" (an original suggestion, seconded)
Perplexing 21 "Wirebreaker"
Perplexing 22 "Pick-a-Plan"
Perplexing 26 "Whisper of the Wind"
Mental 1 "Be A Tidy Lemming!" (it should be noted this person suggested its earlier version (Puzzling 4) as a level to consider adding)
Mental 4 "Trade of the Tricks" (due to execution difficulty)
Mental 12 "Cave of the Cactus" (same reasoning)
Mental 17 "Recycled Lemming Syndrome"
Mental 21 "Adventure Time!!!" (mentioned as being a long level with a non-memorable solution; though I actually remember this person praising this level in the past - interesting to note that maybe it's the kind of level that's only fun the first few times?)


Second
Puzzling 30 "Drop Them Lems" (2nd time it's been seconded)
Perplexing 16 "Wiring Defect" (not an original suggestion, but was suggested by previous person)
Perplexing 30 "Lemming Treety" (2nd time seconded)
Mental 16 "Skill Factory"
Mental 24 "Branch Out A Little!"
Mental 27 "Six-Lem Situation"

IV
Add
Bumpy 17 "Lem Your Lem Could Smell Like"
Twisted 17 "Climber's Edge" (suggested they don't feel too strongly about it, though)

Remove
Smooth 13 "Trophy Cabinet" (mentioned as best choice for an LPIV locked exit puzzle, but still not great - should be noted that Insane 19, which they seconded, is also a locked exit level)
Bumpy 9 "Mechanical Split"
Bumpy 12 "Luck of the Draw" (mentioned that if going for a good appearance level, Puzzling 13 of LPO is better; if going for a good, and specifically VGASPEC, level, then Insane 7 is a better choice)
Twisted 1 "Proceed With Caution" (mentioned that they don't feel too strongly about this one)
Twisted 2 "Lands of Despair" (specifically mentioning Bumpy 17 as a better choice for a Wasteland level)
Twisted 16 "Don't Hold Me Back"
Insane 10 "Comradical!" (second time suggested for removal)

Second
Smooth 14 "Cogs of War"
Bumpy 5 "Space Race" (2nd time seconded)
Twisted 14 "A Universal Production"
Insane 6 "The Mystery Machine"
Insane 14 "Artificially Sweetened"
Insane 19 "Overclocked Lemming"


I'll summarize thoughts based on getting these feedbacks at some point soon. :)
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

#74
Okay, here's my new potential list (pre-trimming-of-excessive-number-of-levels). Removed levels from the original list have been struck out rather than being completely cleared. New additions are bolded. Those with a > next to them are the ones I'd be most likely to drop when trimming the number of levels. Ultimate decisions will probably depend on not only the quality of levels, but also where the most gaps are in the difficulty curve (as you may have noticed, LPF has a very steep initial difficulty curve - going from Fun-style levels to Taxing- or maybe even Mayhem-style ones in the first rank).

Holiday Lemmings Plus
>Glimmer 6 "A Package For Mr. Lemming"
>Arctic 1 "Generous Inclination"
Arctic 3 "23:58 12/14"
Arctic 5 "Dream Parade"

Lemmings Plus Omega
Breezy 20 "The Nuclear Plant"
>Puzzling 7 "More Than Just A Dream"
Puzzling 14 "So This Is How It Ends..."
Puzzling 30 "Drop Them Lems"
Perplexing 5 "When They Need It Most..."
Perplexing 7 "Dial "L" For Lemming"
Perplexing 12 "That's Just How It Is"
Perplexing 16 "Wiring Defect"
Perplexing 30 "Lemming Treety"
>Mental 1 "Be A Tidy Lemming"
>Mental 12 "Cave of the Cactus"
>Mental 13 "A Different Kind Of Hero"
Mental 16 "Skill Factory"
>Mental 21 "Adventure Time!"
Mental 24 "Branch Out A Little"

Lemmings Plus IV
Smooth 14 "Cogs of War"
Smooth 20 "Over The Edge"
Bumpy 5 "Space Race"
>Bumpy 9 "Mechanical Split"
>Bumpy 12 "Luck of the Draw"
Bumpy 17 "Lem Your Lem Could Smell Like"
>Twisted 5 "The Cooling Vat"
Twisted 14 "A Universal Production"
Twisted 16 "Don't Hold Me Back!"
Insane 6 "The Mystery Machine"
Insane 10 "Comradical!"
Insane 14 "Artificially Sweetened"
Insane 19 "Overclocked Lemming"




This is only 29 levels total, even without removing any of the "potentially remove" (only the definitely removed ones from the original list). To try and keep a similar structure to the original Lemmings Plus Flashbacks, I'd like to go for 32 levels again. So, basically - which other three levels should be included?

Previous suggestions that weren't put onto this list are:

Puzzling 4 "Not Very Lemming Friendly"
Puzzling 13 "The Martian Lake Beast"
Twisted 17 "Climber's Edge"
Perplexing 21 "Wirebreaker"
Perplexing 22 "Pick-a-plan"
Perplexing 26 "Whisper of the Wind"
Mental 4 "Trade of the Tricks"
Mental 17 "Recycled Lemming Syndrome"
Smooth 13 "Trophy Cabinet"
Twisted 1 "Proceed With Caution"
Twisted 2 "Lands of Despair"

Of these, the first three were suggested by the second person; the rest were suggested by the first, and disagreed with by the second. However, Puzzling 4 presents an additional problem - its repeat is already in there.

So, adding Puzzling 13 - they make a good case, it has an especially unique value as an artistic level. Of the "controversial" suggestions, I do see myself agreeing with Mental 17. This brings us to the following list, which needs one more level (assuming no removals occur) to reach the desired 32 levels. You're still welcome to argue for the removal of a level, of course.

First Draft List
Holiday Lemmings Plus (4 levels)
Glimmer 6 "A Package For Mr. Lemming"
Arctic 1 "Generous Inclination"
Arctic 3 "23:58 12/14"
Arctic 5 "Dream Parade"

Lemmings Plus Omega (16 levels)
Puzzling 7 "More Than Just A Dream"
Puzzling 13 "The Martian Lake Beast"
Puzzling 14 "So This Is How It Ends..."
Puzzling 30 "Drop Them Lems"
Perplexing 5 "When They Need It Most..."
Perplexing 7 "Dial "L" For Lemming"
Perplexing 12 "That's Just How It Is"
Perplexing 16 "Wiring Defect"
Perplexing 30 "Lemming Treety"
Mental 1 "Be A Tidy Lemming"
Mental 12 "Cave of the Cactus"
Mental 13 "A Different Kind Of Hero"
Mental 16 "Skill Factory"
Mental 17 "Recycled Lemming Syndrome"
Mental 21 "Adventure Time!"
Mental 24 "Branch Out A Little"

Lemmings Plus IV (11 levels)
Smooth 14 "Cogs of War"
Bumpy 5 "Space Race"
Bumpy 9 "Mechanical Split"
Bumpy 12 "Luck of the Draw"
Bumpy 17 "Lem Your Lem Could Smell Like"
Twisted 5 "The Cooling Vat"
Twisted 14 "A Universal Production"
Twisted 16 "Don't Hold Me Back!"
Insane 6 "The Mystery Machine"
Insane 14 "Artificially Sweetened"
Insane 19 "Overclocked Lemming"
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)