Community Request: Find Backroutes!

[mobius]

made a change to blockafloater & Think fast part 2

EDIT: also added another level nominated a while back. At first I thought this level would have no problems; my solution uses a trick to save time because the straightforward approach runs out of time. But then I read the interview with the creator and it seems my solution might be a backroute. In it he says "they need another lemming to help them" and something about "a builder connecting three points."
[my solution doesn't really do anything like either of these points. At least not the first one.]

@Crane [from other thread]; your fix to Herculems is fine but Vegetation reign doesn't display correctly for me. Lots of terrain is missing. I'm not sure why but it's probably because of my custom terrain. Could you send me your styles folder from both your SuperLemmini and Lemmix or NeoLemmix folders to try and resolve this?

[Crane]

I just checked, and that was my fault - I was using a bugged version of NeoLemmixEditor that doesn't save the terrain properly, and I neglected to actually check the level!  Fixed version posted in the relevant topic.  Would you still like my copies of the styles folders?

[Crane]

So has anyone solved my levels the intended way yet, or even better, are those backroutes finally patched?!

[namida]

I just checked, and that was my fault - I was using a bugged version of NeoLemmixEditor that doesn't save the terrain properly, and I neglected to actually check the level!  Fixed version posted in the relevant topic.  Would you still like my copies of the styles folders?

Be sure to always use V1.26n-A or newer when editing (Super)Lemmini levels; that's the earliest version where said bug is fixed.

[Nepster]

New Year - New Backroutes!
Jailbreak: If one chain no longer works to turn the lemmings around - then use the next one .
Overflow: Somewhat different to the previous solutions, but still with spare skills.

Think Fast: This solution is actually easier than my previous one .
BlockAFloater: This looks now more intended, but I still do not block a floater.

[mobius]

think fast -- I don't think I'll bother with this level.

Blockafloater-- that's pretty close to my solution. I doesn't seem like the miner should interact with the arrows imo, it's not close enough  So I made a change anyway.

Made some big fixes to Clam's level "FALL AND DIE" (mirroring the Lix version).  I don't know of any backroutes.

one more new level that was nominated: Timeless Masterpiece by Yawg. I greatly decreased the skillcount because as often the case his solution was over-complicated probably impossible to enforce. This one uses a few simple tricks. [some skills here may be a ruse]

any comments on the difficult of any of these levels would be helpful. [a rating of 1-7 (7 being hardest)] I believe Fall and Die is harder now.

Also for the record; I've scoured some of the old threads here, and in BulletRide and Geoo's discussions I couldn't find much new info on BR's levels, or anyone else's levels for that matter

[Crane]

Thanks again Nepster.  I've hopefully patched the levels (again!) - I also found a plausible backroute of my own on JAILBREAK!, but couldn't personally make it work due to the time constraint... nevertheless, I introduced the most subtle of changes to prevent it from working (see if you can spot it!).

Overflow may still be completable using a variant of your last solution, but I always had at least one or two lemmings walk into the water when I tried it, so see if you have any better luck - if it's possible but too tricky to pull off, I may let it stay.

As for estimated difficulty, given creator's bias:

Overflow - 4 or 5
JAILBREAK! - 6 or 7

Mind you, it's up to the players to decide ultimately.

[mobius]

quick update: I'm going to take Nepster's suggestion on Leave no Lemming behind; I was being stupid and didn't realize how that would help the level. So I'll keep the save requirement to 100% but the solution will not be as precise this way.

[Nepster]

Jailbreak: Still essentially the same solution as the previous two. It might even be possible to bridge the gap instead of building completely to the wall and letting all lemmings go for a longer walk. This way one might even reduce the number of builders used.
Overflow: With a slight modification, my solution still works (finally using all skills ). But I found a completely different backroute saving 100% with a few spare skills.

BloackAFloater: I first tried interchanging the miner and the digger, but did not manage to place the digger properly. So here another modification. However I actually prefer my previous solution (perhaps slightly modified as to not requiring hitting the arrows).
Fall and Die: I am pretty sure this solution is intended. However compared to the original version, the terrain now hints rather much at the solution.
Timeless Masterpiece: Again I am confident, that the solution is close to intended.

[Crane]

Overflow solution 7.2 is SO close to the intended solution that it's painful!!  Still, I've patched the level, but my patch-jobs are starting to look a little bit tacky, especially to stop that trick in solution 7.1, since I sort of need sloped metal now (I can't just keep the bubble slope there, as you can bash into the steel plate to stop lemmings from going into the water).

JAILBREAK! is not as tacky, but I've patched three different parts of the level to hopefully prevent your solution given the leftover builders and the places where you could theoretically use the miner to turn around.  The final obstacle, although not as reliable, is the time limit.  Here goes nothing!

P.S. Both can still be solved in the intended way.

[mobius]

BloackAFloater: I first tried interchanging the miner and the digger, but did not manage to place the digger properly. So here another modification. However I actually prefer my previous solution (perhaps slightly modified as to not requiring hitting the arrows).

I did not expect this level to have such problems. This solution is tacky so I've made a change to remove it neater than before. I was considering leaving your old solution in but the title clearly indicates Twig's intended solution and the digger use in that solution is kind of odd and not really nessicary [if the level had been designed for that solution]

----
On Hey that's not cool guys, I decided to change something: I put the triangle back and put steel under the exit. This prevents Nepster's backroute [and another serious route by Akseli] but keeping that triangle there, I remembered would keep quite a lot of the mystery of the level. I spent a lot of time when I first played this level fumbling around with a route involving using that triangle. I believe Crane mentioned something like this too.
I just hope no more similar backroutes still exist.

[Nepster]

Bad news for all:
Jailbreak: Long route still works with 1 builder spare.
Overflow: Two more solutions - neither of them "SO close" to solution 7_2.
BloackAFloater: There is still a version of my solution that works.

[Crane]

Heh, here we go again.  A pixel is all it takes!

I actually reverted back a version on Overflow before patching, and as a result the level looks quite a bit neater - given it won't work on the original Lemmings because of the steel blocks anyway, I don't mind having so many arrowed walls now that many would be considered fake under the original mechanics.

JAILBREAK! I used a very slight change that I hope doesn't open up a new backroute.  Adapting your last solution to it, I find myself a builder short, so I think it works.  Still, let's see what you make of it.

UPDATE: I found a backroute in Overflow of my own.  It was very similar to my intended solution, but with some tools rearranged, but which also takes away one of the level's tricks.  The level has been adapted to prevent this (hopefully!)

[mobius]

I'm starting to get less interested in "blockafloater" for some reason. Never-the-less, I have a patch;

And now another new level and this time, I will try to promise that this will be the last new level I enter. [may be a futile promise as geoo and Akseli have given me their replays for old levels]
It's Ellischan'ts Brokeback Mountain; a rather complex level which uses quite a few tricks. The first is the original. version "A" is my adaptation to remove my solution, which I think is not nearly as interesting as geoo's.

Not sure if I announced it yet but; someone reminded me that while when I began, Akseli and me agreed to not include levels from large packs; yet for some reason we totally didn't realize that Mikau Shekzen's levels were exactly that; I think it's only fair those be removed now.

[Nepster]

@Crane: The most recent fixes created new solutions .
Jailbreak: Here is a completely new approach, solving the level in 4 minutes. Even if 8_1 is most likely not the intended solution, I like it quite much and would not mind if this solution is kept. As far as I remember, it is my first solution without using builders to create some kind of wall to turn lemmings around.
Solution 8_2 is much more usual and less elegant.
Btw. even with allowing for solutions like 8_1, this level is very hard and interesting.
Overflow: Two more solutions. One created by the last fix and one similar to 7_2 (but still having a basher spare).

@Mobius: Some replays for you as well.
BlockAFloater: This solution has a better chance to be intended.
Brokeback Mountain: An excellent level with a brilliant solution, even though it is possible to save one lemming more than required while having one builder spare. However I doubt, that removing one builder or requiring 97% would improve the level.