Community Request: Find Backroutes!

[mobius]

replays finally work!!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

also thanks for the many suggestions. You're a humongous help  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Gyps Isles: you found a totally different solution which means mine is apparently harder to see then I thought. Only because you said this was annoying I'll try to fix it. I'd like to use this level as a duplicate fun level too since you would most likely take two different paths on it.

[I will comment further on your other replays after I watch them]

a few questions: on Serendipity; was it a real pain to execute? If so (hopefully not *too* much) than it could be the intended solution. Trying it today I found it somewhat annoying but I got it quicker than I thought I would. I raised the RR to 99 because this is what I did to get it to work easier.

[Crane]

I do have a patching solution with JAILBREAK! that could stop your solution - making the walls of the cells thicker - but I want to try this one first: I've redesigned the crane so it's a lot more hazardous to walk off, but also to give a slight red herring for the middle cell (it looks possible to build to it now, as you won't hit your head on the underside of the hook).

As for Overflow, I can now make liberal use of the metal plates when I was reluctant to go for steel zones with this tileset before!

[mobius]

@Nepster; I'll take your recommendations for Patience young Grasshopper. Don't remember if I actually mentioned it but you got the intended solution. I'm happy with how this turned out.

It seems that turning a builder with a walking blocker on the stair is more difficult than on old Lemmini. I certainly hope it's possible, if not then another level will be busted..  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

anyway;
[better] fixes for Bat Country and Gyps isles. The former no longer has a harsh time limit (though still a little tight mostly to guide the player away from false paths (which is maybe not a good idea?) now requires 100% A really cool solution to the latter just occurred to me but I'm not sure how to enforce it. I'm sure there are still other obvious paths available.
I can get replays to work now so use SuperLemmini for them. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

@Crane; what was the reason again, you decided to retract Mastermind? I didn't get a chance yet to test the newest Jailbreak or Pipe Dream, or should I be waiting on further updates?

for some reason I didn't see the attachments to your post  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

[Crane]

Mastermind has quite a few backroutes that are proving very difficult to patch due to the number of builders available.  I may have to change the official solution slightly, and either way it's going to take a lot of work.  I'll try to get something working though if you still want to consider it.

[mobius]

two new levels adapted from Cheapo. I know I said I wasn't remaking any more Cheapo levels but I guess I lied...
These were picked by Akseli and I had fun with them.

[Nepster]

@Crane: Here are new replays (hopefully) for the current versions of Overflow and Jailbreak (recorded with V0.98). They are adapted versions of my previous solutions. For Jailbreak: Freeing the upper lemmings requires now a fair bit of precision.

@möbius: Another set of replays for you as well.
Gyps Island: I don't see what's so special about this solution, so it is likely not quite intended.
Bat Country: There are now many different ways to handle the beginning. The replay shows one, that saves one builder in the end. There are a few changes, that I don't understand (and that feel like a step backwards), e.g.: Why have you lowered the initial step?
Euclid: Good level, but could use a more restrictive skill set.
Leave no one behind: Another good level, but getting the timing right is a horrible task. Is there any reason not to move the one-way-wall on the left several metal blocks away from the gap?

[mobius]

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> replays stop working again.
Now all I did was load one single level---gypse Isles, and then load the replay and Bat Country came up then it crashed  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />

comments anyway:
Bat Country; I can imagine some of the solutions, I guess I'll just go back to a previous version and make this an easier level. At least I can prevent everyone from going down below. I'm tired of testing this level.
My solution was to make blocker on the top and free him later. Or have a more interesting way of sealing up the gap made at the top but you can still just have the last lemming come in and dig down.

Euclid: Now I can think of at least one solution which is simpler then my intended: that was to turn a digger with a blocker... I don't know if I'll try to enforce it.

Leave No Lemming Behind: I could put markers in the terrain to help with the timing. I don't understand what you mean by the arrows on the left; Why would you need to do that?
-alternatively I could let one lem die, which is actually how the original level was. Then there'd be no timing involved but you still have to carry out the tasks in the same order. The original had many more skills so I'm not really sure what the intended solution was.

I forgot to post two other levels I remade but these shouldn't have many problems; they're easierish
I'm sure Nepster already played these in Lix; Leap of Faith and Lemming Cannon. I don't recall them having any backroute problems?

Also I feel I should upload this level by Gronkling; I wanted to include it but found it quite problematic executing the solution. This one is quite difficult.

[Nepster]

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> replays stop working again.
Now all I did was load one single level---gypse Isles, and then load the replay and Bat Country came up then it crashed  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />

I checked my replays and all except Gyps2 worked fine for me. So did you only try Gyps2 or some of the other replays as well?
The replay for Gyps2 loaded the correct level, but made a huge mess out of my solution. So here is an updated version.

Euclid: My solution actually uses turning a digger with a blocker. But even without this, one can have one basher and one digger spare.
Leave no lemming Behind: Sorry for my confusing description. See attached level for the modification I meant. But I don't know how markers on the terrain could tell you e.g. to free the upper lemmings at 5:02 (which actually depends on where you place the miner and the digger afterwards...)?

Lix Cannon: The Lix version did have some issues with backroutes.
Leap of Faith: I am not aware of any backroutes to any Lix version, so this level is likely fine.

[mobius]

Yeah, I had only tried Gyps Isles, sorry for the confusion. I could see the others. As for Gyps, it's a backroute and here's the fix http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
damn basher backstroke annoying me once again.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> BTW, as an announcement I'm now
removing any levels using this annoying feature [there weren't many] I consider it border-line glitchy behavior.

Your solution to Euclid is pretty neat, I'll just remove a few skills and if there are still multiple ways I'll let it go.

I'll make some adjustments to the terrain with Leave No Lemming Behind and also have 19/20. That was saving 100% is just a cool bonus.

@Crane- I've changed my mind again and I'm thinking about removing shvegait's pipe dream. So if you'd like to change your's name back you can. Personally I like either name.

[Crane]

Funny you should say that, because I just came up with another alternative name for that level.  Pick from these three:

- Pipe Dream
- Overflow
- Precision Engineering

Anyhow, here are the next versions, yet again!  Thanks for your relentless testing, Nepster.

[mobius]

Overflow:

is there a good reason the steel is placed like it is? It looks like a narrow vertical diggable path exists over the exit but the actual steel area is different. That's misleading... and what's the purpose of the steel around the trap on the right?

Also, this might be something on my end but I can't seem to play the level, the game crashes when I open it.

[Crane]

I think it's something your end.  It plays fine for me in SuperLemmini, and this is what it looks like in Lemmix.  The steel zone extends below the plates slightly just so the height is a multiple of 8.

As for the steel around the redundant trap to the right, that's mainly a leftover from when the other zapper trap had steel around its housing.

[mobius]

Oh okay.  I know:
I'm using my own graphics instead of the ones tsyu uploaded with super lemmini.  The reason is for some reason his bubble steel is darker and Imo I like the lighter steel minim uploaded way back.  But if everyone else likes the new steel I'll go with that

The order of the pieces in the list must be different so the vertical pieces appeared in my game instead of the correct ones

@nepster I keep failing to answer people's questions;  well, the reason I lowered the step in bat country was to force a solution where u bash out a blocker. But all this (and most likely the intended solution) is rather over complicated and I doubt there's any way to force that

[Crane]

I'm not sure whether I should be concerned or not that no-one's offered any solutions to the most recent versions.  I can confirm that they can be completed though.  Overflow uses a trick that I don't think any other level actively uses, but it isn't a glitchy exploit, while JAILBREAK! is just hard - a little bit of good timing and precision is required, but I don't believe any of it is unfair.

[Nepster]

I'm not sure whether I should be concerned or not that no-one's offered any solutions to the most recent versions.

I for one was quite busy backrouting someone else's levels http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />.

I can confirm that they can be completed though.

... and I can confirm that they can be backrouted as well http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />.

Overflow still has essentially the same solution as the previous two versions.
Jailbreak needed a totally new approach to be able to use three bombers to free the upmost prisoners. But now it celebrates the return of the ever-useful builder-wall.

@mobius: A new solution of Gyps Island for you as well. I think this solution has a good chance to be intended, even if I have one basher spare.