Original Lemmings level voteoff! (closed topic)

[namida]

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So, like I did with my packs, I'm now running voteoffs for the official lemmings games. Starting, logically, with the Original Game.

One change I'm making is that I'm not entering the levels in chronological order, but rather, it's randomized. The lists are determined by first running all the levels through a randomizer, dividing the result into sets of however many levels according to the rules for that round, and then putting the levels within each section back into chronological order. If a single section contains certain conditions, it was rerolled together with the following section until the conditions no longer occur. These conditions are:

• - If the section does not contain levels from at least three difficulty ranks
• - If the section contains too many levels from the same rank
• - If the section contains both a level and its repeat version
• - If the section contains more than one VGASPEC level
• - If the section contains any set of more than 3 consecutive levels

Another section is added into the rerolling if the problem still persisted after three re-rolls. This is continued until the entire list is free of these issues. Also, these things are not applied during the later rounds; only the early ones. The breakdown of the sections can be found in the second post.


As for the breakdown of the rounds, this will be done in six rounds. Each round has a varying amount of levels that qualify for the next round, and a varying amount of votes allowed per user. Qualifying for the next round is based on the following rules:

1) First place - All levels tied for first place qualify, no matter what (even if it exceeds the qualifying levels limit).
2) Second place - If the first place levels do not reach the limit of qualifying levels, all levels tied for second place qualify (even if it exceeds the qualifying levels limit) as long as they have at least one vote.
3) Third place - If the first two places do not reach the limit, and adding the third place levels would not exceed the limit, the third place levels also qualify as long as they have at least one vote (in the first round) or at least half as many votes as the first place level (all other rounds).

If the limit still isn't reached after third place, then the same rule as for 3rd is applied to 4th place and so on.

Original Lemmings round rules

For the "too many levels from same rank" rule, the limit is set at 7 levels; any more than this from a single rank and a re-roll occurs.

First Round
Levels are broken into sets of 10. Three votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 5. Re-rolling rules are applied.

Second Round
Levels that qualified from the first round are broken into sets of 5; if this does not divide equally then the early sets will get an extra level each (eg: if 17 levels qualify, the first set will have 6, second set will have 6, third set will have 5). Two votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 3. Re-rolling rules are applied.

Third Round
Levels that qualified from the second round are broken into sets of 4; if this does not divide equally then the early sets will get an extra level. Two votes are allowed per set per person. The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules are applied, but the "levels from at least three ranks" rule is changed to "levels from at least two ranks".

Fourth Round
Levels that qualified from the third round are broken into three sets, however many levels each that may equate to. The number of votes allowed per person will be one vote plus one extra vote for every whole set of 6 levels in a round (eg: if a round has 5 levels, one vote per person, if a round has 7 levels, two votes per person). The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules do not apply.

Fifth Round
All levels that qualified from the fourth round are played off as a single set, however many levels that may equate to. The number of votes allowed per person follows the same formula as the fourth round. The qualifying levels limit is 2. Re-rolling rules do not apply.

Sixth Round
All levels that qualified from the fifth round are played off as a single set, however many levels that may equate to. One vote is allowed per person. The winner of this round wins the voteoff; if there's a tie but it isn't equal between all levels (for example, if 3 levels qualify and only two of them tie for first), a tiebreaker round will be held, but if it is equal between all levels, they will be tied for winning the voteoff as a whole. Re-rolling rules do not apply.



Please be honest with the number of votes you make; double-check with what the poll question says. But just to be clear - the vote count allowed is a maximum, not an exactly number. In a round where 3 votes are allowed, it's perfectly fine to only vote for one or two levels if you'd prefer.

Also, one change from the Lemmings Plus voteoffs where it was somewhat arbitrary - for this one, all sets will be open for voting for at least 48 hours from the time of the post announcing that they have been put up (for the first set, this post counts as the announcement). I'm not saying for sure I'll be updating it exactly on the 48 hour mark, just that I won't do it *before* that mark.


EDIT: Just want to mention, please don't treat the image links in the poll as permanently available. I don't plan to keep them available once the voteoff is finished. If you want a copy of the level maps (which you can host somewhere else, or on a free image host, if you like), you can get it https://www.dropbox.com/s/52waho6m94a44j4/Orig.zip?dl=0" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here.


After this voteoff is finished, I plan to hold them for the other official games, after which there'll be a "final round" pitting all the winners from each game against each other. The order I plan to do the remaining games in is:
2) Oh No! More Lemmings!
3) Holiday Lemmings 1994 (including H93 levels, of course)
4) Xmas Lemmings 91/92 (combined into a single voteoff)
5) Covox Lemmings Demo
6) Prima Publishing Lemmings Demo
7) Extra levels

Extra levels will be all single-player levels from versions that are mostly mechanics-compatible with the DOS version - in other words, the unique levels from Genesis, the unique levels from the Budget Amiga and Bookclub Amiga versions, the unique Holiday Lemmings level from Amiga, and the unique Tricky 21s from the Mac and SNES versions. Levels from versions that are not mechanics-compatible (or at least close to it) such as Master System, NES and PSP will not be included, and neither will two-player levels.

[namida]

Results so far

Round 1
see attached txt file

Round 2
Section 1:
* Tricky 09 "They just keep on coming"
* Taxing 26 "Triple Trouble"
* Mayhem 20 "No added colours or Lemmings"

Section 2:
* Fun 26 "Nightmare on Lem street"
* Tricky 18 "It's Lemmingentry Watson"
* Mayhem 27 "Just a Minute (Part Two)"

Section 3:
* Fun 20 "We are now at LEMCON ONE"
* Tricky 19 "Postcard from Lemmingland"
* Mayhem 18 "And then there were four...."

Section 4:
Section 5:
Section 6:
Section 7:
Section 8:
Section 9:
Section 10:
Section 11:

Round 3
Round 4
Round 5
Round 6


Section Lists

Round 1
see attached txt file

Round 2
Section 1
Fun 28 "If only they could fly"
Tricky 09 "They just keep on coming"
Taxing 26 "Triple Trouble"
Mayhem 01 "Steel Works"
Mayhem 20 "No added colours or Lemmings"
Mayhem 26 "The Steel Mines of Kessel"

Section 2
Fun 26 "Nightmare on Lem street"
Tricky 18 "It's Lemmingentry Watson"
Tricky 26 "I have a cunning plan"
Tricky 30 "The Crankshaft"
Taxing 10 "Izzie Wizzie lemmings get busy"
Mayhem 27 "Just a Minute (Part Two)"

Section 3
Fun 10 "Smile if you love lemmings"
Fun 11 "Keep your hair on Mr. Lemming"
Fun 20 "We are now at LEMCON ONE"
Tricky 19 "Postcard from Lemmingland"
Mayhem 16 "Just a Minute..."
Mayhem 18 "And then there were four...."

Section 4
Tricky 28 "Lost something?"
Taxing 03 "Heaven can wait (we hope!!!!)"
Taxing 09 "Perserverance"
Mayhem 08 "Last one out is a rotten egg!"
Mayhem 21 "With a twist of lemming please"

Section 5
Tricky 04 "Here's one I prepared earlier"
Taxing 27 "Call in the bomb squad"
Mayhem 03 "It's hero time!"
Mayhem 06 "One way or another"
Mayhem 28 "Mind the step....."

Section 6
Tricky 23 "From The Boundary Line"
Taxing 18 "Tribute to M.C.Escher"
Taxing 29 "How do I dig up the way?"
Mayhem 07 "Poles Apart"
Mayhem 12 "The Far Side"

Section 7
Fun 24 "Konbanwa Lemming san"
Fun 27 "Let's be careful out there"
Taxing 28 "POOR WEE CREATURES!"
Mayhem 09 "Curse of the Pharaohs"
Mayhem 13 "The Great Lemming Caper"

Section 8
Fun 22 "A Beast of a level"
Tricky 29 "Rainbow Island"
Taxing 13 "Upsidedown World"
Taxing 21 "Feel the heat!"
Mayhem 29 "Save Me"

Section 9
Fun 09 "As long as you try your best"
Tricky 11 "Lemmings in the attic"
Tricky 22 "Turn around young lemmings!"
Taxing 02 "Watch out, there's traps about"
Taxing 06 "Compression Method 1"

Section 10
Tricky 12 "Bitter Lemming"
Tricky 25 "Cascade"
Taxing 16 "Mary Poppins' land"
Taxing 22 "Come on over to my place"
Mayhem 30 "Rendezvous at the Mountain"

Section 11
Tricky 06 "Lemmingology"
Taxing 07 "Every Lemming for himself!!!"
Taxing 08 "The Art Gallery"
Mayhem 05 "Down, along, up. In that order"
Mayhem 10 "Pillars of Hercules"

Round 3
Round 4
Round 5
Round 6

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.

[Proxima]

This is going to be great fun -- and also, in many cases, very hard to reach a decision!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I voted for:

Fun 22 -- As a child playing Lemmings for the first time, it was an awesome surprise to hit the first special graphics level: lovely atmospheric graphics and music (and this was 1992 or 3, when those trees were realistic compared to what most games looked like). It's a fun and relaxing level to play through, has an interesting fewest-skills challenge.

Tricky 11 -- Also fun and relaxing, with an interesting variety of solutions including no-builders.

Taxing 7 -- A memorable level that I was stuck on for a while, as the first part is a nice puzzle, and building over all the islands needs major precision (or so it felt at the time). Memories of completing levels like this are why I still think that precision levels are not necessarily bad or unfun.

[Minim]

Thanks namida for putting this up and randomising it. This is definitely going to encourage players back on the forum! OK, my votes are in (It's a shame I'm not allowed to change my vote). My votes are on the two Mayhem levels (Both are great puzzles) and Taxing 7 (Although only just, I almost went for Fun 22 but with the Trees looking a bit messy, and the repetition of the bashers before the next stage I changed my mind)

[namida]

I made two slight adjustments to the qualifying rules - I actually had these in mind before but forgot to explicitly state them:

1) The rules about second or third place levels qualifying to make up empty spaces only apply if they have at least one vote. For example, in the first round (where the qualifying amount is 5), if three levels are tied for first and no other level received any votes, the other seven levels would not qualify based on the second place rule (because they got no votes). However, if all the other levels had one vote each, they would qualify.

2) If after third place the maximum still hasn't been reached, then the same rule as for 3rd is applied to 4th place, and 5th place, and so on until the limit is reached (or adding another place would exceed the limit - for example, if the limit is 5, and the first three places give 4 levels qualifying, and there's one level in 4th place it would qualify, but if there were two tied for 4th then neither of them would).

Hopefully you understand what I'm meaning by the system. Feel free to ask if anything is unclear.



By the way, if anyone is wondering - my votes this round were Tricky 11 (I don't really know why, I just somewhat like it and none of the other levels stood out), Taxing 12 (this has always been one of my favorites, I'm not really sure why) and Mayhem 7 (I think this one is a great puzzle).

[Prob Lem]

My votes are for the following;

Fun 12 "Patience"
Fun 22 "A Beast of a level"
Tricky 11 "Lemmings in the attic"

It's because I found them all atmospheric in one sense or another, really. I really like levels in that vein. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

my votes were on Patience, A Beast of a Level and Poles apart.

I always like Patience; simple yet complex layout at the same time, 99 RR is jarring for a new player and lots of solutions. Beast of a Level has cool unique graphics and Poles apart is one of those requiring creative solutions.

I love levels with an atmospheric quality too.

[namida]

I always like Patience; simple yet complex layout at the same time, 99 RR is jarring for a new player and lots of solutions. Beast of a Level has cool unique graphics and Poles apart is one of those requiring creative solutions.

You know, reading this comment made me think "I'm sure that isn't the first level that does it" and indeed, Fun 9 does too. What's not so obvious - these two levels are (cosmetics aside) extremely similar in solution - block off the left side and bash the obstacle in the middle while dealing with RR99. The only difference is the extra step at the end in Fun 12. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Tiduas]

I do love Lemmings but I have no way of knowing all the levels by only the titles. Wouldn't it be nice to include a set of pictures for the stages alongside the voting to encourage more people to vote? (like me for example http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> )

[namida]

Ill see what I can do about that when I get home. For now, if you look up a site called The Lemmings Solution, it has images of every level.

[Minim]

Tiduas has raised a good point. Well, you can get them from the resources. http://www.neolemmix.com/levelimg/orig/0102.png" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">This is a link to the level, or if anyone prefers to display them, put in img tags and it comes out like this:

http://www.neolemmix.com/levelimg/orig/0102.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[geoo]

I do love Lemmings but I have no way of knowing all the levels by only the titles. Wouldn't it be nice to include a set of pictures for the stages alongside the voting to encourage more people to vote? (like me for example http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> )

Same issue here, not everyone has played through the levels over and over again. Though I just look them up here: http://tle.vaarties.nl/lemmings/solutions/amiga/fun/1/10/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://tle.vaarties.nl/lemmings/solutions/amiga/fun/1/10/
For the record, I just voted for Poles Apart. Don't think any of the other levels quite deserve my vote.

[ccexplore]

This may also be helpful:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121014190622/http://www.deveria.com/alexis/lemmings/lemmings/amigacodes.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20121014190622/http://www.deveria.com/alexis/lemmings/lemmings/amigacodes.html

It has a table of all the levels including screenshots (a bit small, but you can mouse over them to see a larger version).  Main point is that you can do a search on that one single page to find the level given the name.  (In contrast The Lemmings Encyclopedia breaks them up into multiple pages so not as convenient for that.)

[namida]

Okay, I edited the polls to make every option link to a level map. Hope that helps. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

(Actually displaying them in-line is far too messy.)

[namida]

Alright, first section is over! Very impressed by the number of people who voted! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> The qualifying levels are:

* Fun 22 "A Beast of a level"
* Tricky 11 "Lemmings in the attic"
* Taxing 7 "Every Lemming for himself!!!"
* Mayhem 7 "Poles Apart"
* Mayhem 29 "Save Me"

Second section is now up.