Zendo, play by forum

Simon · May 23, 2016, 06:58:38 PM

Akhtbn iff one of these:
* it is exactly 2 letters long and they're both vowels,
* it is exactly 3 letters long and of form vovel-vovel-consonant,
* it is at least 4 letters long, begins with a consonant, and alternates between letters and consonants.

Blergh, PINEAPPLE is white, counterexample.

-- Simon

Dullstar · May 23, 2016, 07:00:31 PM

In case Simon's rule isn't correct, a correction to my abridged list and more koans:
BANA
BANO
CAKE
EA
FACADE
MELO
NANA
PINE
PIRA
RATE
XOXOXOX
(I accidentally left XOXOXOX off)

XOXOXO
XOXOX
XOXO
XOX
XO

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:01:52 PM

White Koans
BANA EAR NANANA RATES
BANANA EARS NANANAN XOXO
BANANAB FACA PINE XOXOX
BANANANANA FACAD PINEAPPLE XOXOXO
BANANAS FACADE PIRA XOXOXOX
BANO MELO PIRAT XOXOXOXO
CAKE MELON PIRATE
DANANA NANA PIRATES
EA NANAN RATE

Black Koans
A BB FAC OXOXOXOX
ABA BBA FISH P
ABBA BBB LEMMINGS PI
ANANAN BIRD M PIN
APPLE C ME PIR
B CAK MEL R
BA CAR MOUSE RAT
BAA CAT NA RATS
BAN D NAN RESTAURANT
BANB DOG O S
BANDANA DRUG OPERA STEAM
BANN E ORAN TRAIN
BAR F ORANGE XO
BARS FA OXOXOXO XOX

Dullstar · May 23, 2016, 07:02:41 PM

Quote from: Simon on May 23, 2016, 06:58:38 PM
Akhtbn iff one of these:
* it is exactly 2 letters long and they're both vowels,
* it is exactly 3 letters long and of form vovel-vovel-consonant,
* it is at least 4 letters long, begins with a consonant, and alternates between letters and consonants.

Blergh, PINEAPPLE is white, counterexample.

-- Simon

I think, based on the hint that was given, that it would depend only on the first n letters, so I think you MIGHT be on to something if you change it along those lines.

Proxima · May 23, 2016, 07:02:58 PM

If the vowel-consonant theory is correct (and subsequent additions to the list have not yet contradicted it), it follows that we have a complete knowledge of 1, 2 and 3-letter koans:

1-letter: All black
2-letter: VV white, others black
3-letter: VVV, VVC white, others black

However, for 4 letters and beyond, a koan can be white without having two consecutive vowels.

Dullstar · May 23, 2016, 07:06:51 PM

I wouldn't say we have complete knowledge of 2 letter koans since we only have one 2 letter white koan. So might as well try to get more, right?
AA
AE
KA
KI
EE
II
OO
UU

If Proxima's theory for 2 letter koans is correct, I'd expect KI and KA to be black, all others white.

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:07:39 PM

White Koans
AA EA NANA PIRATES
AE EAR NANAN RATE
BANA EARS NANANA RATES
BANANA EE NANANAN UU
BANANAB FACA OO XOXO
BANANANANA FACAD PINE XOXOX
BANANAS FACADE PINEAPPLE XOXOXO
BANO II PIRA XOXOXOX
CAKE MELO PIRAT XOXOXOXO
DANANA MELON PIRATE

Black Koans
A BBA KA P
ABA BBB KI PI
ABBA BIRD LEMMINGS PIN
ANANAN C M PIR
APPLE CAK ME R
B CAR MEL RAT
BA CAT MOUSE RATS
BAA D NA RESTAURANT
BAN DOG NAN S
BANB DRUG O STEAM
BANDANA E OPERA TRAIN
BANN F ORAN XO
BAR FA ORANGE XOX
BARS FAC OXOXOXO
BB FISH OXOXOXOX

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:08:52 PM

I'll just mention - although breaking it down by lengths is one way it could be handled, it is possible to explain the rule without any reference to the koan's length, and certianly without any "if the koan is this long, this rule applies; if it's this long, this other rule applies; etc".

Dullstar · May 23, 2016, 07:10:57 PM

Testing 3 and 4 letters:

EAT
AAA
EEE
III
OOO
UUU
AEI
ICE
IEV
HARE
DARE
KATE

I think it will help, though, if we can at least consistently guess what will be white and what will be black.
Of my latest list, I'm expecting ICE to be black.

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:11:59 PM

White Koans
AA EA KATE PIRATE
AAA EAR MELO PIRATES
AE EARS MELON RATE
AEI EAT NANA RATES
BANA EE NANAN UU
BANANA EEE NANANA UUU
BANANAB FACA NANANAN XOXO
BANANANANA FACAD OO XOXOX
BANANAS FACADE OOO XOXOXO
BANO HARE PINE XOXOXOX
CAKE IEV PINEAPPLE XOXOXOXO
DANANA II PIRA
DARE III PIRAT

Black Koans
A BBA ICE OXOXOXOX
ABA BBB KA P
ABBA BIRD KI PI
ANANAN C LEMMINGS PIN
APPLE CAK M PIR
B CAR ME R
BA CAT MEL RAT
BAA D MOUSE RATS
BAN DOG NA RESTAURANT
BANB DRUG NAN S
BANDANA E O STEAM
BANN F OPERA TRAIN
BAR FA ORAN XO
BARS FAC ORANGE XOX
BB FISH OXOXOXO

Simon · May 23, 2016, 07:15:06 PM

OOXX
OOXXX
OOXXXX
OOOX
OOOXX
OOOXXX

-- Simon

Dullstar · May 23, 2016, 07:15:52 PM

Quote from: Proxima on May 23, 2016, 07:02:58 PM
If the vowel-consonant theory is correct (and subsequent additions to the list have not yet contradicted it), it follows that we have a complete knowledge of 1, 2 and 3-letter koans:

1-letter: All black
2-letter: VV white, others black
3-letter: VVV, VVC white, others black

However, for 4 letters and beyond, a koan can be white without having two consecutive vowels.

It seems that for 4 letters, CVCV consistently works, but VCVC does not.

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:16:13 PM

White Koans
AA EAR MELON PINEAPPLE
AAA EARS NANA PIRA
AE EAT NANAN PIRAT
AEI EE NANANA PIRATE
BANA EEE NANANAN PIRATES
BANANA FACA OO RATE
BANANAB FACAD OOO RATES
BANANANANA FACADE OOOX UU
BANANAS HARE OOOXX UUU
BANO IEV OOOXXX XOXO
CAKE II OOXX XOXOX
DANANA III OOXXX XOXOXO
DARE KATE OOXXXX XOXOXOX
EA MELO PINE XOXOXOXO

Black Koans
A BBA ICE OXOXOXOX
ABA BBB KA P
ABBA BIRD KI PI
ANANAN C LEMMINGS PIN
APPLE CAK M PIR
B CAR ME R
BA CAT MEL RAT
BAA D MOUSE RATS
BAN DOG NA RESTAURANT
BANB DRUG NAN S
BANDANA E O STEAM
BANN F OPERA TRAIN
BAR FA ORAN XO
BARS FAC ORANGE XOX
BB FISH OXOXOXO

Proxima · May 23, 2016, 07:17:07 PM

Suppose the vowel-consonant theory is correct, then for 4 letters, we know:

VVxx is white (x = anything)
CVCV is white

CVCC is black
CVVC is black
CCVV is black
VCCC is black
VCCV is black
VCVC is black

CVVV, CCCC, CCCV, CCVC, VCVV are unknown.... so let's guess them!

Guesses:
BEAU
BCDF
BCDE
CLUB
EPEE

namida · May 23, 2016, 07:18:19 PM

White Koans
AA EAR MELON PINEAPPLE
AAA EARS NANA PIRA
AE EAT NANAN PIRAT
AEI EE NANANA PIRATE
BANA EEE NANANAN PIRATES
BANANA FACA OO RATE
BANANAB FACAD OOO RATES
BANANANANA FACADE OOOX UU
BANANAS HARE OOOXX UUU
BANO IEV OOOXXX XOXO
CAKE II OOXX XOXOX
DANANA III OOXXX XOXOXO
DARE KATE OOXXXX XOXOXOX
EA MELO PINE XOXOXOXO

Black Koans
A BBB FA ORANGE
ABA BCDE FAC OXOXOXO
ABBA BCDF FISH OXOXOXOX
ANANAN BEAU ICE P
APPLE BIRD KA PI
B C KI PIN
BA CAK LEMMINGS PIR
BAA CAR M R
BAN CAT ME RAT
BANB CLUB MEL RATS
BANDANA D MOUSE RESTAURANT
BANN DOG NA S
BAR DRUG NAN STEAM
BARS E O TRAIN
BB EPEE OPERA XO
BBA F ORAN XOX