Zendo, play by forum

[Silken Healer]

I assume that the existing MAYHEM (white) will break your guess even after you decide what the definition of real words should be.

Yes, I just noticed it would be, I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time with that guess

[WillLem]

Yes, I just noticed it would be, I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time with that guess

No guess is a waste of time as it helps to move towards a solution; all contibutions are welcome and necessary

I still don't understand your guess. This post is partcularly confusing:

AKHTBN iff it's 4 or more characters long and is a real word or contains a word inside of it

I just realized this is an invalid guess due to TREE being white

TREE is 4 characters long and is a real word (assuming "real word" is either a word that can be found in any dictionary, or a recognisable acronym/abbreviation), so why would this be an invalid guess? You then said you wanted ZIC to be a real word. OK, but that's in the list of black koans, so it already disproves your guess anyway.

Simon has also added to the confusion somewhat by saying that MAYHEM also disproves the guess because it's a white koan; however, this is also 4+ characters and a real word, so it proves your guess.

So, I must have completely misunderstood your guess!

[Simon]

saying that MAYHEM also disproves the guess because it's a white koan; however, this is also 4+ characters and a real word, so it proves your guess.

Correct, I confused the directions in the flowchart. I retract the statement about how MAYHEM is likely to disprove a guess. MAYHEM should be black according to Silken's flowchart.

The existing TRIFURCATION (white) contains CAT. Is that enough for you to counter the guess?

Otherwise, I fall back to: Your guess is unfinished. Define which dictionary(ies) you want to use for "real word". I cannot make counterexamples unless we both agree what exact subset of the koanspace you mean.

-- Simon

[WillLem]

Silken, your guess is unfinished. Define which dictionary(ies) you want to use for "real word". I cannot make counterexamples unless we both agree what exact subset of the koanspace you mean.

It's not so much the lack of definition of "real word" that's confusing, it's more the fact that the guess appears to reflect the polar opposite of what's in the koans table. Perhaps Silken misread the table, and got the white/black koans reversed somehow?

Silken, please define "real word" for Simon, and then confirm that your guess reflects the existing koan table for me!

[Simon]

saying that MAYHEM also disproves the guess because it's a white koan; however, this is also 4+ characters and a real word, so it proves your guess.

I went according to his flowchart.

MAYHEM is 5 characters or longer, go right.

MAYHEM contains MAY, which probably qualifies for "real word". Go down, and we reach an end. The flowchart now declares it black, but it's really white.

Should the flowchart have different behavior than his written guess, I'll treat the flowchart as gospel and the written guess as buggy. Should we disagree whether MAY is probable to qualifiy for "real word", I'll defer to: Silken must first define exactly which dictionaries I should use. Then, I'll re-scan the table. Only then, I'll make new counterexamples.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

OK
OKP
OKPO

[Simon]

White koans:
  A      FUN       OXO             WD
  ACT    G         OXR             WE
  AT     I         OYUX            X
  BTU    KYHU      QJR             XY
  C      M         TREE            Y
  CAT    MAYHEM    TRIFURCATION    Z
  DDR    O         U               ZF
  E    * OK        UQFQ            ZXSX
  EB   * OKP       V
  F    * OKPO      VOV

Black koans:
  ASYMMETRIC       SYMMETRIC
  CONCATENATION    TAXING
  FRUIT            TRICKY
  FUNCTION         TRUNCATION
  OKPI             ZICZ
  SIMON

-- Simon

[Proxima]

OKOP
OKPIF
OXI

[Simon]

White koans:
  A      FUN       OKPO            VOV
  ACT    G         OXO             WD
  AT     I         OXR             WE
  BTU    KYHU      OYUX            X
  C      M         QJR             XY
  CAT    MAYHEM    TREE            Y
  DDR    O         TRIFURCATION    Z
  E      OK        U               ZF
  EB   * OKOP      UQFQ            ZXSX
  F      OKP       V

Black koans:
  ASYMMETRIC       SIMON
  CONCATENATION    SYMMETRIC
  FRUIT            TAXING
  FUNCTION         TRICKY
  OKPI             TRUNCATION
* OKPIF            ZICZ
* OXI

-- Simon

[Silken Healer]

FURCATION
CATENATION
CATION

[Simon]

White koans:
  A      FUN       OKPO            VOV
  ACT    G         OXO             WD
  AT     I         OXR             WE
  BTU    KYHU      OYUX            X
  C      M         QJR             XY
  CAT    MAYHEM    TREE            Y
  DDR    O         TRIFURCATION    Z
  E      OK        U               ZF
  EB     OKOP      UQFQ            ZXSX
  F      OKP       V

Black koans:
  ASYMMETRIC       OKPIF
* CATENATION       OXI
* CATION           SIMON
  CONCATENATION    SYMMETRIC
  FRUIT            TAXING
  FUNCTION         TRICKY
* FURCATION        TRUNCATION
  OKPI             ZICZ

-- Simon

[Silken Healer]

XURCATION
FXRCATION
FUXCATION
FURXATION
FURCXTION
FURCAXION
FURCATXON
FURCATIXN
FURCATIOX
XATENATION
CXTENATION
CAXENATION
CATXNATION
CATEXATION
CATENXTION
CATENAXION
CATENATXON
CATENATIXN
CATENATIOX
XATION
CXTION
CAXION
CATXON
CATIXN
CATIOX

[Proxima]

HXI
IXI
QXI

[Simon]

White koans:
  A             E            M         OYUX            WE
  ACT           EB           MAYHEM    QJR             X
  AT            F            O         TREE            XY
  BTU           FUN          OK        TRIFURCATION    Y
  C           * FURCATXON    OKOP      U               Z
  CAT           G            OKP       UQFQ            ZF
* CATENATXON    I            OKPO      V               ZXSX
* CATXON      * IXI          OXO       VOV
  DDR           KYHU         OXR       WD

Black koans:
  ASYMMETRIC  * CATXNATION     * FURCATIXN  * QXI
  CATENATION  * CAXENATION     * FURCAXION    SIMON
* CATENATIOX  * CAXION         * FURCXTION    SYMMETRIC
* CATENATIXN    CONCATENATION  * FURXATION    TAXING
* CATENAXION  * CXTENATION     * FUXCATION    TRICKY
* CATENXTION  * CXTION         * FXRCATION    TRUNCATION
* CATEXATION    FRUIT          * HXI        * XATENATION
  CATION        FUNCTION         OKPI       * XATION
* CATIOX        FURCATION        OKPIF      * XURCATION
* CATIXN      * FURCATIOX        OXI          ZICZ

-- Simon

[Proxima]

HXH
OKI
OKO
QXQ