What is up with the Circus music in Lemmings 3D?

[Prob Lem]

Why on Earth are the three "Circus" tunes from Lemmings 3D kind of scary, or at the very least (as in the case of Circus 3) quite downbeat?

Lemmings 3D's presentation is, by and large, very very good, and everything fits like it should, except for this audio - it doesn't really feel like it goes with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NvQ7otI5c" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">the texture-set/style that it's used with, nor does it feel at all circus-like in any way. The first circus tune almost feels more like haunted house music!

I could only find http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cyhdQUjXs" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Circus 1 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1vjpsPu3rY" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Circus 3 on YouTube, because Circus 2 is only in the non-redbook soundtrack (and it's just a minor remix, anyway), which should be enough to give you the gist, here, if you haven't heard them.

I was just wondering if anyone had any insights, or even just plausible ideas, about this, because it makes no sense to me at all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/scared.gif" alt=":scared:" title="Scared" class="smiley" />

[NaOH]

I've never listened to the Lemmings 3D soundtrack before, but I really liked the two tracks you linked. Circus 1 took a while to grow on me, but it's actually a fairly interesting reggae (?) rhythm with some nice bass. It's strange that I so quickly took a liking to these pieces, since, as is the case with most of the Lemmmings games I didn't grow up with (Lemmings 2, ONML), I can't say I like most of the Lemmings games soundtracks other than the DOS Lemmings 1 soundtrack (which I adore). Thank you for the link to this, I will listen to the rest of the soundtrack right away! Unfortunately, the music in these videos seems to cut out before a full loop, is that right?

The first track seems to have some subtle circus-y elements in them. In addition to the bouncy rhythm, listen closely to the melody that comes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cyhdQUjXs&t=48" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here, particularly the chromatic elements, then compare that to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvaukqLg8s&t=11" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this, which is a piece I often associate with circuses.

The third one sounds like the synth might be imitating an accordion, which has always seemed like a fairly whimsical instrument to me.

But you're right, the songs do have an unusual sinister quality to them. They wouldn't be out of place in a haunted house. However, I do feel that they fit in a circus environment, albeit a sinister circus, which is not hard for me to imagine. Circuses, with their intense and crowded environment, have always seemed like a scary place to me. (After writing this, I've just discovered http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CircusOfFear" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">it's even a trope) Indeed, the dark colours of the circus tileset you linked to, along with its claustrophobic panopticon crowd, make the atmosphere feel rather sinister to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2xWguSihjU" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Here's another video game with a particularly sinister circus soundtrack, albeit much harsher on the ears, and perhaps not as musically varied. So I say: the songs fit, and they're definitely superior to some of the more egregiously in-your-face cheery circus-themed soundtracks I've heard.

[namida]

Hey, I'm almost certain that crowd isn't there on the PC version! Anyway, I always felt the musics suited it well, though I wasn't a huge fan of the second one (and actually, I thought that was the one you were talking about with the haunted house thing, before I actually clicked). That being said, the Circus musics are far from the best in L3D - my favorites are the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu9GlHJWJ-I" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemgo 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9is7Jhk9HQ" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Computer 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGPiCA7BmZM" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Medieval 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C5bKCo6Jts" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Garden 3

And my absolute favorite...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kleA6govF8Q" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Alien 3

[Tiduas]

To be honest Lemmings 3D's soundtrack might be one of my favorites of all time. I got the game as a christmas present '95 (I was like 6 years and loved playing Lemmings with my parents) and did play it for quite some time. Although the game probably wouldn't grab me that much today the music certainly did and I still include it in a lot of my playlists to this very day.

With that said, I'm not the correct person to ask about this since I basically grew up with these tracks and this game kind of taught me what a medieval theme, circus theme and army theme all should sound like. I could relate to the opinion that the Circus themes actually sounds a little like haunted houses, but my brain just keeps sending me downt the circus road in the end anyway.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />


As a side note, some of my favorite themes are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyMo2n1Jwo4" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyMo2n1Jwo4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WoXATIkdno" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WoXATIkdno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ0naQbA3zg" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ0naQbA3zg

[namida]

Really, I have to say L3D has one of the best game soundtracks of all time. The only track I would actually say I outright dislike is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxoaqFo-4rQ" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Sweet Land 1. There's a few others I'm not overly fond of, but they're at least decent, if not amazing.

[ccexplore]

I can't remember the last time I've actually been to a real-life circus show, so I honestly can't even say what "real" circus music is supposed to be like.  I know visually the styling tends to evoke "clown" but that's only a small part of a typical circus show, which admittedly does have many danger-filled stunts like trapeze, lion taming and what not.  So perhaps scary music isn't actually that far off? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  I do agree that personally I probably would've preferred something not quite so haunted-house like.

[Prob Lem]

I've never listened to the Lemmings 3D soundtrack before, but I really liked the two tracks you linked. Circus 1 took a while to grow on me, but it's actually a fairly interesting reggae (?) rhythm with some nice bass. It's strange that I so quickly took a liking to these pieces, since, as is the case with most of the Lemmmings games I didn't grow up with (Lemmings 2, ONML), I can't say I like most of the Lemmings games soundtracks other than the DOS Lemmings 1 soundtrack (which I adore). Thank you for the link to this, I will listen to the rest of the soundtrack right away!

If you like the Lemmings 3D soundtrack at all, you'd be well-advised to also check out the soundtrack for Lomax, which was done by the same guy, and which reprises some bits from the Lemmings 3D soundtrack (which I mentioned in passing here, way back).

For what it's worth, Lemmings 3D's soundtrack is my favourite in the entire series, jointly with the Amiga original and Master System versions of the first game's soundtrack, then followed by the Lomax soundtrack.

Unfortunately, the music in these videos seems to cut out before a full loop, is that right?

I didn't listen through the entire videos, I admit, but for Circus 3 that's definitely normal - that track is cut off early in the MS-DOS version's redbook audio, for reasons unknown, but it's reinstated in its entirety the PlayStation version. If you want to give them a listen, I've included all three versions of the soundtrack (MS-DOS redbook, MS-DOS SoundBlaster, which is the only one to contain version 2 of each tune and also has some unused jingles, and Sony PlayStation) below - enjoy! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1ezn8r9fdu71txl/Lemmings+3D+MS-DOS+Redbook+Soundtrack.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings 3D MS-DOS Redbook Soundtrack

http://www.mediafire.com/?aocq77bhstc7zgc" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings 3D SoundBlaster Soundtrack (Part One)
http://www.mediafire.com/?9dppzb8s35dbru4" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings 3D SoundBlaster Soundtrack (Part Two)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/57wonc5msqnq7w5/Lemmings+3D+PSX+Soundtrack.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings 3D PSX Soundtrack

The first track seems to have some subtle circus-y elements in them. In addition to the bouncy rhythm, listen closely to the melody that comes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cyhdQUjXs&t=48" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here, particularly the chromatic elements, then compare that to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewvaukqLg8s&t=11" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this, which is a piece I often associate with circuses.

I can definitely see that, or rather, hear it. Wow. Never made the connection before. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

The third one sounds like the synth might be imitating an accordion, which has always seemed like a fairly whimsical instrument to me.

True, true.

But you're right, the songs do have an unusual sinister quality to them. They wouldn't be out of place in a haunted house. However, I do feel that they fit in a circus environment, albeit a sinister circus, which is not hard for me to imagine. Circuses, with their intense and crowded environment, have always seemed like a scary place to me. (After writing this, I've just discovered http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CircusOfFear" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">it's even a trope) Indeed, the dark colours of the circus tileset you linked to, along with its claustrophobic panopticon crowd, make the atmosphere feel rather sinister to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2xWguSihjU" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Here's another video game with a particularly sinister circus soundtrack, albeit much harsher on the ears, and perhaps not as musically varied. So I say: the songs fit, and they're definitely superior to some of the more egregiously in-your-face cheery circus-themed soundtracks I've heard.

It's fair to point out that as namida notes, the crowd, and therefore the claustrophobic feeling it invokes, isn't present in the original MS-DOS release. It has a much more vast, open space in the background.

I think I can see them fitting a little better with the comparisons you've drawn, but they still feel a little *too* sinister to me. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Hey, I'm almost certain that crowd isn't there on the PC version!

You're right, it isn't. The PSX version adds that, and a few other little graphical changes here and there (though it is forced to use the low-res lemmings), even including the between-level "wallpaper" images being mapped onto a flag, and including an exclusive new one (that I could only wish I knew how to rip) for in-between the tutorial levels, which shows a classroom scene that relates back to the graduation image shown when you complete the tutorials in the MS-DOS version.

Anyway, I always felt the musics suited it well, though I wasn't a huge fan of the second one (and actually, I thought that was the one you were talking about with the haunted house thing, before I actually clicked). That being said, the Circus musics are far from the best in L3D - my favorites are the following:

I love the entire soundtrack, honestly. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

To be honest Lemmings 3D's soundtrack might be one of my favorites of all time. I got the game as a christmas present '95 (I was like 6 years and loved playing Lemmings with my parents) and did play it for quite some time. Although the game probably wouldn't grab me that much today the music certainly did and I still include it in a lot of my playlists to this very day.

I got it in early 1996, when we got our first x86 box, so I've had the music in my life for almost as long. The game is as good as it ever was, too - I do feel that it gets an unfairly bad reputation, as really it's a deeply clever game.

Really, I have to say L3D has one of the best game soundtracks of all time. The only track I would actually say I outright dislike is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxoaqFo-4rQ" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Sweet Land 1. There's a few others I'm not overly fond of, but they're at least decent, if not amazing.

You guys surprise me, honestly. I really thought I was the only one who thinks that Lemmings 3D's soundtrack is of that calibre. It's nice to be wrong, sometimes. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

I can't remember the last time I've actually been to a real-life circus show, so I honestly can't even say what "real" circus music is supposed to be like.  I know visually the styling tends to evoke "clown" but that's only a small part of a typical circus show, which admittedly does have many danger-filled stunts like trapeze, lion taming and what not.  So perhaps scary music isn't actually that far off? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  I do agree that personally I probably would've preferred something not quite so haunted-house like.

I'm not super-fond of circuses, but I did go to at least a couple when I was little, and I suppose I'd expect something at least a *bit* more cheery than what Lemmings 3D goes with. Perhaps I'm over-thinking it, and it's really meant to underscore that all the devious traps and such make it a sinister circus? I have no idea. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Prob Lem]

Oops! Forgot to include the Lomax soundtrack. Here it is;

http://www.mediafire.com/download/o829dyd4ab5ccze/Lomax+Soundtrack.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lomax Soundtrack

[namida]

In all honesty, one of the reasons that I'm not overly fond of that first circus music may very well be Mayhem 16 (or as L3D labels it, Mayhem 76 - it doesn't restart the numbering between ranks, so the first level of Tricky for example is labelled "Tricky 21"). I'd definitely say it's by far the hardest level in L3D... well, the final level would be if it didn't have a major backroute... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />