Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha

[Nepster]

If you are interested I can make replays (at least without the RR-fiddling needed to make them actually work).

Sure, let me see them.

Finally got around to make them (using v10). The additional trap removes one of the approaches (even if the game mechanics were different). I added it nevertheless.

I assume that Escape the Pit (or Pit of Despair?) is supposed to be easy but I attached my replay saving skills just in case.

That's precisely the solution I figured was intended in your original design. As for the saved skills: With the given skill set and 29/30 requirement, the second bomber and blocker are essentially useless. Ignoring these you have one floater spare, which isn't so much. And I am fine with either of the titles.

a backroute fix for A Fearful Symmetry [new]

Attached a solution. Note that your design is not symmetric: My approach for the left-hand side doesn't work for the right-hand side (because the blue block at the bottom is slightly lower).


Finally one remark @geoo: Perhaps you can update "Off the Rails" to use the same terrain as "Derailed Level"?

[ccexplore]

Finally got around to make them (using v10). The additional trap removes one of the approaches (even if the game mechanics were different). I added it nevertheless.

Thanks!  Seeing solutions like these and geoo's is making me consider more and more to actually open up the level for multiple solutions for the community version, http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> although I suppose right now the set isn't exactly lacking of easier levels so I dunno.

Anyway, here's Won't Get Fooled Again v11.  I can actually just bump up the save requirement instead to take care of things (in its current setup things happen to work out so well for the intended solution that the margin for the save requirement might be somewhat superfluous), but here's what I can do if the save requirement is to be kept as is.  I also have an additional comment below, which is in spoilers because it unavoidably reveals something about the intended solution (though not much, yet at the same time any info may be counterproductive for exploration of potential backroutes):

Your latest failed backroute is actually getting close to the solution concept, enough to actually make me wonder about allowing it.  But it's both simpler in certain details and also clearly more fiddly to make successful, so I think ultimately better off blocking out that route.

[EDIT: sorry, let me take a little more time to think about whether I even need steel there.  Level will be re-uploaded hopefully soon]

[ccexplore]

Excuse the delay, but Won't Get Fooled Again v11 attached here.  Of course the steel is needed there, http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" /> clearly I needed more sleep or something.

(Oh, and thanks Matt for providing the only 8x8 steel currently available!)

[mobius]

backroute fixes to Lix who Japed and Every which way but loose.
also attempt fix to Picard Maneuver

[mobius]

1. here's the spreadsheet updated with all my hints. I can't think of any for the remaining levels I didn't mention yet. I might later but don't count on it. If you would like to add your own hints you may.

[mobius]

I've altered Lix who Japed yet again because before there were supposed to be two major solutions. One however requires a more obscure trick and this is the one that seemed to be found more readily so I've (hopefully) made it so only the other one is available.

there is one skill that is not needed.

[geoo]

Ok, a few notes, this doesn't address everything mentioned in this thread by far, I'll comment more at some point.
First off, looking at the poll results, and with the announcement of Project Capybara meaning that not all levels that don't fit in here have to be scrapped, I'm now confident in picking 240 levels as a total. It also means that rather than leaving out the not so good levels, I can also consider diversity in my picks.
Note that I'll probably want to go down to 236 or 237 so I can add a few levels to the Simple rating to smoothen the difficulty curve.

The following are pairs of levels that are kinda similar. I would want to move on of them each over to Project Capybara, but only if there's guarantee that they really will be used there because I don't want to see them scrapped (with maybe the exception of "When the Levee Breaks"/"Castles in the Sky").
Either "Absolute Zero" or "Eye of the Needle". I think knowing the solution to one of them makes finding the solution to the second significantly easier. I think "Absolute Zero" is harder so I'd pick that one to keep.
Either "Don't catch me if you can" or "Top Gear". Both are built around a similar main trick, they are a bit more different than the previous pair though, so I'm not 100% confident here. NaOH said "Top Gear" seemed too easy for Hopeless, so I'd keep "Don't Catch me".
Either "Over the Hump" or "Lixes in Motion". I'd probably roll a die here for the decision.
Either "When the Levee Breaks" or "Castles in the Sky". Two execution levels of similar difficulty, so I only want one of them. Inclined to keep "Castles in the Sky" for author diversity even though I find it a bit more annoying than the other one, but I'm not sure here.
"Dances with Lixes" (if I can't enforce my solution, I will ponder this), "100% Built by Lixes" and "Ascending and Descending" are all very similar in spirit, and I'd only want to keep two of them. "Ascending" is in Hopeless, "100% Built" is by ccx which is especially a reason against moving if I already move "Top Gear", but difficulty-wise the level being close to "Ascending" might be a reason in favour. I don't know. EDIT: Here's yet another version of "Dances with Lixes" which I think enforces my solution? Not 100% sure though. Wonder if adding a blocker to ease execution would introduce backroutes as well. Please check out this version and tell me what you think.

More levels that I don't want to see scrapped but rather appear in Project Capybara:
Heavenly Skies, The Giant Mushroom - So I don't have to worry about prettifying it for now.
A fearful symmetry - Now there are two different levels of that name. The second got submitted really late, the first needs a rename. I'd just move both to Project Capybara to make things simpler for myself.

Levels that I will very likely move out, in part by request, and I don't insist on them ending up in Project Capybara:
Confusing Fractals
Snake
Wrong Way
A Lix on the Edge!
Play Ball!
Diggin' The Air
Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo
It's All Uphill From Here
Leap of the Locust

Levels that I will keep:
Tribute to Flagpole Sitting: Except for the looks, it's completely different from Minimalism, and very open-ended.
Fear of Heights: I think it's a cool very basic puzzle.
Soaring, Bulldozer: Again, a diversity thing as these are pretty unique.

I'm inclined to keep Three Days of the Condor as it uses a trick that is needed a lot later, and I'm not sure whether a player would stumble across it by accident.

Other comments:
I agree that "Finale" could maybe be moved down to Vicious, I had a lot of trouble with it the first time around, but I had another look today and solved it in less than 5 minutes without remembering any details about how I'd done it before. If, due to possibly moving two levels out from Hopeless (see above) Hopeless falls short one or two levels, maybe "Empty Space" could be moved up instead? And I also have finally made another level that I've been wanting to make for ages, but at some point I thought it was infeasible but now with a few changes I got it to work. It's supposed to be late Hopeless difficulty-wise, but hard to judge for me. If people like it and there turns out to be a shortage of Hopeless-worthy levels, I might consider including it, though otherwise it's a pretty late submission for that even if it's been in the workings since very early on, and there are some subtleties involved in the solution. Level is attached, feedback welcome.

Lix Cannon: As I see it, to release the left crowd all the way to the right, you have to bash to the right under the steel, but high enough so the basher stops on his own. This means you have to bash right into the steel which still removes some terrain so everyone can walk to the right. Is this intended? It's somewhat strange basher behaviour, and might not work in future (though I think it will if the steel cancelling physics will be implemented the way I suggested to Simon).

I'm in support of giving 10 of each to "Escape the Pit" as well. If I recall mobius was ok with that, Nepster you too (I'd use your remade version)? I'll also change the skill set to some other early levels so the player won't get overwhelmed. I'll announce those when I post a new version. Thanks NaOH for ordering the Simple levels so far; I'll make a few changes but overall like the ordering. I reduced the save requirement to "Downpour" even further to 25 now. I think once you figure the idea execution really just needs getting it right once or twice.

[ccexplore]

Either "Don't catch me if you can" or "Top Gear". Both are built around a similar main trick, they are a bit more different than the previous pair though, so I'm not 100% confident here. NaOH said "Top Gear" seemed too easy for Hopeless, so I'd keep "Don't Catch me".

I don't know how reliable it is to base difficulty assessments on a single person (or maybe two http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />) as opposed to a more diverse group of people (though I fully understand it may not be highly feasible to do so here).  That said, I just played "Don't catch me" and I do agree that it pretty much captures the same idea as Top Gear, plus it's unquestionably less annoying from execution standpoint compared to Top Gear (though I suppose reducing number of Lixes for Top Gear might've helped as well).  Thus I'm more than fine with dropping "Top Gear" and keeping "Don't Catch me", though appearance-wise perhaps "Don't" could be jazzed up slightly (not in Top Gear's gaudy manner mind you, but something at least).  In fact with "Don't Catch Me" I'm not sure how relevant it is to even have "Top Gear" included in Project Capybara, but I guess that's up to mobius.  Oh, and I better make sure I don't find any backroutes in "Don't" (nothing so far so probably okay).

[edit: of course the above assumes that there exists other levels where the miner is doing actual mining as well as continuing on a builder bridge, I guess that's the main difference between the two levels conceptually]

"Dances with Lixes" (if I can't enforce my solution, I will ponder this), "100% Built by Lixes" and "Ascending and Descending" are all very similar in spirit, and I'd only want to keep two of them. "Ascending" is in Hopeless, "100% Built" is by ccx which is especially a reason against moving if I already move "Top Gear", but difficulty-wise the level being close to "Ascending" might be a reason in favour. I don't know.

Given the origins of "100% Built by Lixes", it is pretty much the opposite of creative and the other levels are probably more deserving just for that alone.  That said, I do hope that the two main ideas in "100%..." are at least utilized elsewhere in the set.

[ccexplore]

EDIT: Here's yet another version of "Dances with Lixes" which I think enforces my solution? Not 100% sure though. Wonder if adding a blocker to ease execution would introduce backroutes as well. Please check out this version and tell me what you think.

I'm apparently missing geoo/nopales under my images directory so I can't play the level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />  Is that part of 04-04-14 release or something posted separately afterwards?

And I also have finally made another level that I've been wanting to make for ages, but at some point I thought it was infeasible but now with a few changes I got it to work. It's supposed to be late Hopeless difficulty-wise, but hard to judge for me. If people like it and there turns out to be a shortage of Hopeless-worthy levels, I might consider including it, though otherwise it's a pretty late submission for that even if it's been in the workings since very early on, and there are some subtleties involved in the solution. Level is attached, feedback welcome.

Seems like worthy level to me, I enjoyed it at any rate. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> It never totally stumped me but it's fair to say there are some subtleties involved that took a little time to unravel.  Don't know anything about late Hopeless at the moment so no comment on how the level fits there.  I suppose before any further comments, my attached replay should be reviewed first (it seems pretty intended to me, though if I have time I'll try harder and see if I can find more solutions).

[geoo]

The terrain you're missing for "Dances with Lixes" is linked to in a topic that is linked to in the first post, or more directly here: http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/lix-images-dir-2014-05-28.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/lix-images-dir-2014-05-28.zip
I'm quite confident now that something of sorts like this will work, so "100% Built by Lixes" and "Ascending and Descending" will probably both stay where they are.

I'm glad you liked the new level; the solution is close to the intended one, but for the sake of hopefully enforcing mine (not sure whether I'd allow your variation for the community pack, feedback welcome) here's a backroute fix.

As for "Top Gear" vs "Don't Catch Me", I don't remember having much trouble with "Top Gear" and I think I rated it high because it uses a fancy trick, but I'm not sure anymore. Either way I feel there are not that many things you can try. They are different enough that it might be ok to keep both, but not too close together. So either "Top Gear" should go in late Vicious, or I put both in the first half of Hopeless as far apart as possible, meaning that one of the two, probably "Don't Catch Me", would end up in mid-Hopeless.

[ccexplore]

EDIT: Here's yet another version of "Dances with Lixes" which I think enforces my solution? Not 100% sure though. Wonder if adding a blocker to ease execution would introduce backroutes as well.

Oh, you have a far bigger problem than a blocker. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/devil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil" class="smiley" /> Though likely Fortunately easily fixable with more applications of steel. perhaps?  Note that with the leftover skills, even the opening move seen in the replay (same one used  in "100% Built By lixes") is superfluous.

[edit2: 2 more replays for "Dance", at least these are surely much closer to what you have in mind.

It's fair to say this is not meant to be a Hopeless level?  As I probably don't plan on playing anything ranked less than Hopeless, I can't offer any informed opinions on whether it's worth including or not.  I suppose it's a decent non-Hopeless introduction to the particular general idea (that is, once you fix the backroute http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />  Though at this level of difficulty, even the backroute's kinda interesting in its own way, maybe). ]

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edit: and Trading 5 replay attached.

[Nepster]

I finally managed to write some hints for my levels. I had difficulties to find helpful but not too revealing hints, so if you can think of better ones, feel free to replace mine.

Escape the Pit: As this is meant to be an easy level, raising skill numbers sounds reasonable. I just realized that (in my version) going over the right hill is already possible with the reduced skill set http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />. Maybe even reducing the save requirements to 28/30?

Trading: Another solution. The new version is quite a bit harder than the previous one.

Lix who Japed: Another solutions just for the sake of completeness; it doesn't feel backroutish.

[mobius]

Lix who Japed: Another solutions just for the sake of completeness; it doesn't feel backroutish.

It's not quite the intended solution but I'm not sure how much easier/harder it is. I'm surprised people are not finding the intended; it's not tricky to execute and does not seem that difficult to me. It is less "funny" than your solution. Idk how else to word it [no climbing through terrain or anything like that]
EDIT:
Actually I like the first part of your solution and Realize I can both enforce that and remove that backroute part by removing one digger.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Attached is the new version.
[this level started out with many more skills and it's slowly being reduced with every backroute fix]

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And just in case if any other of mine or anyone's levels need to be replaced or geoo ends up going with more levels; I've uploaded that new level I made in the other topic for anyone to try with a small backroute fix. I'm not likely to work on "project Capybara" real soon, so I'm alright with that level going here.

[geoo]

"Dances with Lixes" surely doesn't belong in Hopeless, though depending on which version I end up picking (enforcing my solution or leaving it more open), it could go anywhere between Cunning and Vicious I guess. I attached a new version that hopefully enforces my solution, I'm not sure whether I'll pick this version for the pack, it'd resolved the clash with the other two levels, which are in the last two ratings however.

Also a new version of "Trading" that hopefully doesn't allow to bypass the outer gadgets in some way anymore. Interesting solutions to this one so far.

Also attached is a prettified version of "Don't Catch Me", no other changes there.

Escape the Pit: As this is meant to be an easy level, raising skill numbers sounds reasonable. I just realized that (in my version) going over the right hill is already possible with the reduced skill set http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />. Maybe even reducing the save requirements to 28/30?

I was thinking of actually reducing it to 20/30, I mean once you go down to 28, the solutions that work with 20/30 generally can also save 28. I just means players can be a bit more careless with sealing off the gaps at the bottom.

[ccexplore]

Hmm, now that you removed my B/C solutions from v4, I'm not really sure I see any relations between "Dances..." and "100% Built by Lix" anymore?  [Not that it was all that close in v4, but now even less so in v5.]  Perhaps it's just clashing with "Ascending..." (which I haven't really looked at yet)?

Anyway, a bunch of solutions (well, really just 3 minor variations of the same) zipped and attached.

The sawblade placement may be a little "too close for comfort" so to speak, but I guess it's okay in this case since there aren't really any other potential routes to try that would completely avoid that area, so sooner or later the player will have to explore that area and find that the sawblade only prevents building and not mere walking.

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Trading 6 is looking good, no more solutions thus far besides this attached one.  Gained a point or two in terms of worthiness of inclusion for Hopeless.   One thing that I wonder though, do the vertical bars need to be that thick to prevent backroutes?  As it is I have to be pretty careful with placement of diggers, though I guess for Hopeless it's acceptable (and never really a problem for me anyway with the zzz and replay features).

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Prettified Don't Catch Me looks very nice, actually I wasn't expecting decorations in the walls so that was a nice surprise.    I do hope though that the decorations are featured in earlier levels, in ways that make it clear they do not have empty spaces, as their darkest parts can be a little difficult to distinguish at a glance from the black background.

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.